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Post by alisay on Jul 14, 2014 15:19:59 GMT
Hi all, I am new and 47 years old and I am seriously beginning to think that my older sister's behavior is beyond Sibling rivalry or Family squabbles. Perhaps I am paranoid, or stupid, but I would like to know the opinion of people who had suffered worse abuse than what I am going to relate. The reason for this is that I now have a 2-year-old daughter living with me and she has already witnessed us quarreling two or three times and I am afraid she will end up traumatized by all this. Ever since I can remember my sister was a figure of fear to me. She is 10 years older than me and there are no other siblings. When I was 4 or 5 she used to sneak into the kitchen when I was having my evening milk to tell me that there were roaches in the glass, or that and old, sick man spat of the liquid. She used to hit me and throw me to the floor even when I was in my teens. She quarreled with my father all the time and they had to send her to boarding school for a couple of years, allegedly to improve her school results. I moved out of my mums’ home in my mid-twenties when I got my first permanent job (dad died a couple of years earlier) and I started a relationship that lasted 14 years. Not a good one because I never felt that he really appreciated me or cared for me well enough. I also survived a cancer. My relationship with my sister continued to be difficult because she will pick up fights for any reason, usually accusing us of disrespecting her somehow, and all discussion ends up in screaming, even occasionally hitting. My Ex hatted her and vice versa and I was always in the middle trying to make things right with everybody. After my relationship finished 5 years ago I moved to live next to my sister as it was convenient for my job and also because I needed emotional support to deal with the separation. Since then, I feel like I live in Hell. She picks up fights for any reason and accuses me of all sorts of things: I am an alcoholic (I have gastritis and haven’t had a drink in years), I am addicted to video games (I am an IT consultant and run my own company from home, so of course I am on the computer all time, when I am not travelling to the customer’s site), I am a bad house mate (once at University I had to leave the students I was living with because I had a very bad relationship with one)… Now her favorite topic is my 2-year-old daughter: I am a bad mother because I send her to Day Care every day and have a night nanny (I am a single working mother who has to travel for work, what am I supposed to do?). She “rescues” her from day care once a week (she does not work, of course, her husband does) and brings her to the park. I do not like it, but if I complain, I am a bad mother who denies her daughter a treat because she is jealous. She is constantly buying her expensive clothes totally uncomfortable (my little one refuses them because the hurt her). She took her to the park one day after I had spent 3 weeks at home potty-training and came back with 4 wet trousers because she let her play and did not bring her to a toilet. She then demanded that next time I should put at least 6 trousers on the bag (I have to prepare all the bags with food, clothes for every outing, as she never does it). When I told her that she could not take her to the park any longer unless she brought with (and used) the potinette, she finally did it (and, of course, I was a bad mother…) She also babysits on holidays when I have emergency work and although I thank her profusely, it does not seem to be enough (I am a bad sister too!) The latest one, and the one that made me think that I should ask for help, because either I am crazy or she is, is the following: She goes with her husband every year on holidays to the village up the mountains were my father was born. Her husband is a university professor, so he has long holidays although he must do research and writing during them as well and the village is ideal for his writing and her painting. They usually take our mother with them (she is 84) to do her a favor (and also so she can cook and clean for them). I do not go there because there is no internet or phones and I cannot work or do anything. Plus, I do not like it. Of course, I am a bad daughter because I never spend holidays with the family. My mum is fed up because the village is too hilly and she has problems to walk up the streets and stairs. I finally went 2 weeks (my only 2 weeks of holidays last year) to the village and I found it extremely uncomfortable to move around with the baby and the pram, so I told her that this year I would not go. My mum stays with me when she comes to visit (never with her because she picks quarrels with her 3 times a week and accuses her of being a bad mother that never cared for her, etc) and she has asked me that this year we should go together to the beach (she, the Baby and me) during my 2-week-holidays, so that she can avoid the village. I agreed and organized it. So yesterday my sister came into my house and, holding my daughter, she accused me of being selfish because I organized the holidays to please me, that I should go to the village because if I did not, they will not see my daughter for 2 months. I told her that she was the selfish one and we ended up screaming with my daughter crying in the middle. She accused me repeatedly of being selfish, that I was only a real mother during the week-ends and that they cared for my daughter better and much more until I grabbed my daughter and told her to leave my house. So, now I am troubled. Is it my fault? Am I overreacting and I should patch up the quarrel, as my mum says? Or should I grab my daughter and get out of there as fast as I possibly can, sell my house and find another place to leave? I cannot talk to my mum because even when she comes crying to me all the time complaining about the insults that my sister screams at her, she does not want me to move. She clings to the fantasy that we can be a family. My sister’s husband will always support her and side with her (ever if she hits him in the head and face calling him “imbecile”, “worthless” and “whoreson” every other week if he drops something, even when he is driving if he makes a mistake) so I have no-one to turn to. Please, let me know what you think because I do not know if this is abuse or I need to take a pill. And if it is abuse, what should I do? How can I make her change her behavior? I do not think that there is any legal recourse for a case like this, unless she does something to endanger others. Only her husband could do something, but he has been with her for 30 years (he was 20 when they met) and I do not think that he is able to realize how not-normal it is being slapped and insulted on a regular basis. Any advice is welcomed.
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 14, 2014 15:41:07 GMT
Yes, this is abuse you are describing.
I am also concerned about the emotional safety of your daughter around your sister, much like you already mentioned yourself you do not feel ok with your daughter witnessing your sister's radical behavior. It leaves a child feeling unsafe and can cause long lasting emotional damage.
I would say your gut already told you the way out that feels right- move away from her and find a reliable, well-recommended nanny to pick up the babysitting your sister used to cover. It is NOT worth it.
You cannot change her behavior. Many families actually enable an abuser or addict or anyone really with dysfunctional and destructive behavior to continue what they are doing by covering up. By making excuses for their behavior, by hoping they can 'love someone so much that they change' and it is all just one big delusion. Nobody but a good and qualified mental health professional could even ATTEMPT to help her change. But even for that she would have to recognize her behavior is no ok and that she needs help.
It might as well be that there are underlying mental health issues such a bipolar or manic-depressive, or narcissistic personality disorder present in her, but again ONLY a mental health professional could even try to diagnose her and work out a treatment plan.
One thing you CAN do though is seek counseling for yourself. It sounds like your sister is used to ignoring and running over boundaries of other people. She does not respect her own mother or you, and I am concerned what influence she can have on your child. Certainly she is not a very good role model for a little girl.
In counseling you can learn to set your boundaries and defend them- but also maybe something that helped me with a complicated relationship in my family was the 5 "stops'
stop fixing her stop figuring her out stop fighting with her stop fleeing from it by letting it go on and unwillingly letting her abuse you stop focusing on her (YOU matter too!!!)
Picking a good counselor for yourself, if that is something you feel comfortable doing sometimes down the road to heal from this relationship, is also an important part. You can google what to expect from a good counselor and then also trust your gut feeling once you do visit one maybe in the future.
Life is too short to spend your energy on dysfunctional people. I do understand it is very hard when we talk about a family member or close friend. Of course we want it to be perfect and good and we tell ourselves "i only got one sister"
My aunt actually finally stopped talking to my mother, her sister, because after 50 years of accepting my mother's manipulative and insulting behavior, she finally stood up for herself. The result was my mother dropped her like a hot potato and showed how much she really cared - not at all.
Hang in there and listen to your own gut. Your daughter deserves your love and attention and a safe home environment. Do what is best for her and you. The rest is NOBODY'S business. Period. Ever. Period.
Hang in there and let us know how you decide to act from here on out if that feels comfortable sharing!!
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Post by alisay on Jul 14, 2014 17:25:07 GMT
Hi Janine, Thanks for your advice. I feel for you aunt and I understand what she has been through. I sometimes quarrel with mi sister so strongly that she does not talk to me for weeks. I feel great when that happens, but then she comes back, never apologizing (not her, it is never her fault) just dropping by with some important news and she behaves so normally that I always think that this time she got it and we are going to finally be a normal family. But, of course, a few weeks later we are back again to the same: the out-of-the-blue monologues about how bad day care is for a child, constant advice of how to do things from cleaning the printer to tackling spiders, constant pointing out that my daughter needs clothes (she has wardrobes full of them, really) or a haircut, or “needs” a bicycle (she is 2!). I wanted to follow your advice and look for a counselor, but as soon as I googled it I remembered: my sister IS a counselor. She does not work but did some hours here and there a few years back. So, it is likely that anyone I talk to might know her is a professional capacity. So now, I do not know what to do concerning seeking professional help. As for the rest, I have to think how to manage to get away from here. I cannot be a good mother if I am always feeling like garbage and I will always be garbage for my sister. I have to accept that and move on somehow.
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 14, 2014 17:40:03 GMT
My aunt had very similar experiences with my mother- my mother would sometimes not talk to her for long periods of time, she did not even tell my aunt when she was pregnant with me and had me. My aunt had to find out from neighbors in their village about it.
I would say if you feel uncomfortable contacting counselors in your city, maybe a neighboring city might feel better? Even if it means a longer commute to counseling. You can also research online if the counselor you chose has a valid license with the board in your state/country and had any complaints filed before etc. Often there are also online reviews which can help you make a good choice. You can also google "warning signs" of a bad counselor, to get an idea what to expect, what NOT to accept and how in general counselors have to treat personal information by law.
My counselor now for example also treats two of my friends and he NEVER mentions them to me or me to them. Counselors by law have to keep anything confidential. Unless you want to harm yourself or someone else, then they can reach out to involve extra help because a life is at stake but they will explain all of this during the first session in therapy.
It sounds like your sister is a great manipulator and has tactics in place to micromanage you, your daughter and your mother and coerce you into doing what she wants. That must be a very difficult situation and especially when you keep thinking 'but its my sister...." I had similar issues with my mother and in my case it was a blessing I had my aunt as a witness. She would confirm my perception was right and my mother lied, manipulated and emotionally abused us both in many ways by putting us down, name calling, subtle insults, sarcasm and critic and insults masked as "humor"
There is a great book out there by Anne Katherina about boundaries, maybe that could help you identify moments when your sister steps across the line and prepare yourself to stand up for yourself and not participate in her mindgames.
What keeps you from moving to a new place and getting some distance between you and her right now if I may ask?
You dont have to answer to me, just for yourself. Sometimes we really are not stuck but fear we are and one change of thought can help to get started on changes we want in life.
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Post by Finally free on Jul 14, 2014 17:48:42 GMT
Hi, My mam and my sister are like that, I put up with it for years....finally wised up and have never been happier without them, sad but true, I didnt realise that I was putting up with them cos they were family, didnt think about how much abuse I was sufferring, just kept trying to keep the peace and keep them happy. You cant win with people like this, you need to look after your own well being, you cant be happy when she is constantly putting you down, life is hard enough....you dont deserve this, you and your daughter deserve unconditional support and love.
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Post by alisay on Jul 14, 2014 18:06:48 GMT
I guess that the only thing that stops me from moving is that I cannot decide WHERE to go. I have been moving around studying and working for over 25 years. I really hoped that this time I could settle and raise my Baby without having to drag my suitcases behind me all the time. I have found a great school for my daughter in this city, I have a great nanny... Now what I need is to be able to go back home from work and not find my mum looking like she is going to cry and my daughter with a sugar high and ridiculous shoes.
I do not have any friends that I can trust with this situation. Sometimes I find it so unbelievable that I am convinced that if I tell anyone about this they will think that I am crazy. Who would they believe? The nice sister always cooking dinners for everybody and visiting her friends every other weekend and doing favors and buying her niece all these expensive clothes? Or the crazy looking fat sister always with her nose on the computer and who is always too tired or too sick to even go out for a coffee on a Sunday afternoon?
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Post by Finally Free on Jul 14, 2014 20:42:23 GMT
Ahh its so hard....I know I used to struggle with what people think and I still get annoyed when I hear that cos of what my mam and sister have said about me (which is a complete untrue story to make themselves appear saintly of course) some people think im the loner, the black sheep etc etc, but I only care about those who really care for me. I have wished and wanted a normal family my whole life and ive finally accepted that some people have this wonderful family that I dream of and I never will. Now im at peace with life and with my beautiful daughter, no hurt for her or me, just love.
I too feel fed up with moving around and never being completely settled, but things are so much better now I dont see any of the abusers in my life.
I have since came across some lovely friends, who once I opened up to them have been supportive to why I dont see my family, sometimes its hard for others as they have a supportive family and find it unbelievable that people especially family can behave this way...its alot more common than I ever thought.
My daughter is almost 13 now and hasnt seen her aunty for 5 years, her choice, she not missing out on anything, ive always been honest with her, never to poison her mind or sway her in any way just always believe in honesty, so when a brief period came where she was in contact with her grandma, grandma couldnt re-write the past like she had wanted and my daughter decided she didnt want to see this bitter person either.
These types of people often have such a caring but fake appearance usually to strangers or people they arent attached to, so when they have done a good deed and are praised and seen to be holy it feeds their habit even more, making us appear strange, unloving etc, but eventually people can see it and those that cant dont matter to you.
Sorry for rambling, I really do understand the turmoil
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 14, 2014 20:50:54 GMT
If you love the city and school, maybe just move away from being next door? Or wait until you feel strong enough to cut the cord and move one last time. Maybe there is another place that could offer a school just as good, your daughter is only 2 you mentioned and during that age I find it is easier to adjust to new places, before she gets too attached to friends and relies more on her own social network when she is older.
You will feel when the time is right, trust your gut.
It is hard when it is your own family, like FinallyFree said. But for me as well it has helped to distance myself from the family members who simply did not leave me feeling good. I always wondered why I dreaded seeing my stepfather and mother after not seeing them for many years, when my friends at Uni could not WAIT to go home to their families. It hurts a lot to know my family is not a normal one- but luckily I do have one aunt who understands and my sister in law suffers just as much from my mother and talking to her helps.
You are right it is hard when outsides do not see the truth. You cannot change anyone or make them see it either, that was hard for me to learn. I wanted to scream and say: Cant you see???I am the victim, she lies and manipulates.
Maybe your sister is also jealous of you having a daughter and wants to bribe her into liking her a lot with all those unnecessary gifts and too much candy?
You are strong and if you want to, there will be the right time and place to move to. You dont have to do or decide anything today. We are here if you would like to share some stories and find some ears.
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Post by alisay on Jul 16, 2014 7:19:39 GMT
Hi all,
Back after some heavy thinking. I know now that I have to move away from her somehow. I have been looking at housing in other areas of the city and I have a couple of ideas. One of them is to move near a friend of mine. She is actually the wife of a work colleague of my brother-in-law. They were very good friends before he (the colleague) got married. Now they are not friends any more because my sister cannot stand her and constantly criticizes her. But she and I have become friends because she has a daughter the same age as mine. I cannot confide in her because she will naturally tell her husband and this might leek to his work and damage my brother-in-law, but at least she would be someone with whom I can go out and talk of other things. The problem is that her area is a bit more expensive so I have to beef up my resources before I can afford to move there. Alternative number 2 would be to find another area less pricy but where I would be more alone. The issue, of course, is that with either of these 2 alternatives I would still be within spitting distance, so to speak, of the source of my distress. Finally alternative number 3 would be to move away completely. I am not afraid to do that (I have done it often enough and I know the drill) but I need to find a proper environment for my LO.
I will get there. It is just a question of time.
I have been reading some extracts of "Why does he do that" (thanks for the recommendations, I have to buy it) and I found out that my sister fits the profile of the "Mr Right" to a T. I find hilarious that my sister, who paints herself as a "Feminist" (of course, being a feminist, it is OK to hit her husband) fits the profile of a male abuser. It is liberating to see her that way and to be able to laugh.
On another note, my Ex was most definitively a "Water Torturer". When I was with him, I used to be on antidepressants twice a year. I though that my depressions were due to the cancer, but I have not needed them since we split. Why is it that abuse victims find themselves in similar situations over and over? Do we have a neon sign somewhere that say "Get It Here"? I need to find me a counselor as well, not only to deal myself with all this, but to ensure that the curse stops here. I will NOT become an abuser to my daughter.
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 16, 2014 13:18:04 GMT
Hey alisay,
That is good thinking-take your time and when it feels right, you will know where to move to. I have moved a bit myself too since I started graduate school and did a gap year to explore another continent and you do get used to it. It does not mean that you have to keep moving forever, it just means right now you are still on the road. And that is ok!!!!
Maybe if you do leave make it a clean cut to have enough distance where your sister cannot micromanage your daily life anymore- the phone can always be ignored luckily!So then she can call you but you can also hang up, knowing she cannot just swing by and force herself into your life and that of your daughter like she does now.
I am also glad you liked "Why does he do that"- I too found it 100% right on with my abusive Ex. One point you mentioned is VERY true for many of us here, and victims of abuse in general: the fear of repeatedly letting abusers into your life. I most certainly did that until I completed a good therapy with a wonderful counselor and read a ton of books about emotional abuse, setting boundaries, early warning signs of abusive personalities etc. In terms of dating, one book i can recommend you 100% is written by Steve McCrea and called "Jerk Radar". My therapist liked it so much too she ended up recommending it to her clients as well because it sums up pretty well how you HAVE to be on watch when you start seeing someone new, if you had abusive experiences in the past.
They DO smell it out and often test you long before you realize what is going on/ It is little things....
I also found other books helpful in learning how to set boundaries and say no, and...also accept that not everyone likes to be told 'no' or shown boundaries. My mother is especially bad at respecting my boundaries and has two set manipulative tactics in place when she does realize I am not backing up and holding my ground. She either attacks me verbally and insults me, or she uses silent treatment or even threatens to abandon me in terms of contact completely. It feels as if she is a 4 year old having a tantrum, but the sad fact is those people are grown ups, often even physically stronger than we are or in positions of power (financial for example) over us. In my case the idea of 'how dare you criticize MOTHER' was terrible for the longest time and I really had to see a good counselor to learn what she does is emotional abuse and NOT ok.
Here are the books...let me grab my kindle and find the titles real quick...:
"Where to draw the line" by Anne Katherine "Who is pulling your string" by Harriet Braiker PhD
There are tons more, depending on your own personal family history and a good counselor can point you at books that fit your individual needs. Before you choose a counselor it is also advised to research warning signs of counselors (as with any profession those can have a few black sheep too) because it can cost a TON of energy to end up with the wrong one. And there are early signs and things you can do to ensure your pick is the best possible....also of course...as always, listen to your gut. One should always come out of every counseling session feeling lighter and well supported and with a good feeling. (My counselor for example most of the time ends with something like "great work today" and he really means it.)
I have NO doubts you will make the right choices at the right time and you seem very resourceful and determined to heal and protect your child. respect!!!!
We are always here if you need to vent about your sister or share situations you would like some reflections about.
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Post by alisay on Jul 17, 2014 10:29:59 GMT
I had a panic attack yesterday because I realized that I will soon have to deny my sister access to my daughter. She is using her to get at me and sooner or later I am going to have to stop the park visits and other trips make other arrangements. Then I thought what if she tries to take my daughter from me? Thinking rationally, there is no way that Social Services are going to take her away just because I am a working single mother. But what if she tells them that I am a bad mother? The other day she went running into the street (no cars, but it was scary) so I turned her around and gave her 3 spanks on her bottom so that she could understand how bad that was. She can use things like that against me. She worked with Social Services when she was a counselor and she is always telling me how stupid the Social Workers are. My experience with them during the 2 official visits has always been positive and they have been very supportive and have praised me for the way I was raising her, but my sister knows the System and I do not, and I do believe that she is arrogant enough to try to take her if she is thwarted.
On another note, I would like some advice for my mum. She does not look well. My sister has been insulting her more than usual these weeks that I have been 4 nights a week away on a project and she looks really depressed. I think that for the past years I have been making things worse by trying to encourage her to stand up to her together with me to see if we could make my sister change, but that has make her worse. I have to accept that my sister will never change, no matter what we do, so the only thing that I can do is to try to help my mum in other ways. She is 84 and there is no way she would ever go to a counselor. Perhaps if I try to boost her self-esteem by telling her how a great mother she has always been and how much she is helping me, that would make her feel better. Any more ideas on how to handle this?
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 17, 2014 14:27:09 GMT
Hey alisay,
I would say for now your concerns are of course valid, because you out of all people know the manipulator your sister is the best. As for her taking your child away, there would have to be WAY more serious incidents to let that happen. Courts do NOT mess around with child custody in cases like that because by law she has NO rights to custody or visitations etc. She might try and use that as a threat, but if/when she does just know it has NO foundation. Most parents sometimes give their kids a little spank on the butt and situations like running into the streets HAPPEN....A friend of mine is a social worker and she says unless there is real evidence of neglect and abuse, nobody would even bother looking into accusations. Some parents let their kids fall of slides by accidents, or even fall down stairs with them and get to keep them!!!! So no worries there...
It might be that your fears are about something else- and they manifest in worrying about losing your custody over your child. - because you might fear repercussions of your sister if you do reduce contact? What are her usual tactics of 'punishing' you when you do not comply with her demands? Having those in mind and expecting the different tactics can help you prepare for yourself how YOU react.
We can never control what other people choose to do, BUT...we have ALL the control in the world over how WE react. Which is empowering!!! In Buddhism there is a saying that nobody can hurt you without your consent. (of course there are exceptions when you look at battered wives and war victims etc.) but in general we benefit from putting the focus on us if we heal and empower ourselves.
For now I would say until YOU feel comfortable with changes and possible moving etc. it might help to keep the tide low and pretend as if everything is normal. You do not owe your sister apologies or explanations- even if you were to stop her from having your daughter over right away though!!!!It just sometimes helps to ground yourself first and know what you want to do, before confronting an abuser. Your mother definitely sounds like she could use some positive statements from you and maybe spend some time with her if that feels right. Ultimately it also is her choice to treat her daughter- your sister- the way she wants. We cannot change others and carry their worries too- it would be literally depressing. You can support her by offering an ear and assuring her she is a great mother if that feels right.
Hang in there, you already have a ton of resources in place and are actively working in change. That is amazing!
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Post by alisay on Jul 17, 2014 15:24:45 GMT
Hi Janine,
Thanks for your postings and your support. I think that this was just my ansiety and paranoia kicking in. Recently, I have come to dread hearing the phone ringing.
Until recently her favorite punishment tatics were the outright insult, like the "selfish" coment last week or, more often, the criticism under the veil of "helping" me with things like how badly decorated is my house, how I live like if I was still a student and not a mother... More and more often are about my daughter and how i do not take care of her "properly". She of course is an expert because once a few years ago she did a course on Infant Observation and got to observe a "real" mother half-an-hour a week for 3 months...
After she has pushed my buttons properly and manages to get me to shout at her, comes the silent treatment. She is using that one less and less, because she is beginning to realise that I actually enjoy when she does not talk to me. She is more and more ofter initiating the contact with shorter periods of silence and more and more direct attacks.
She used also to come to me outraged because someone had been rude to her, or complaining about her husband, but for something so trivial that no sane person could agree with her and then ask me for my opinion. If I did not agree, she would then accuse me of never supporting her... One example I remember was when she came complaining about how her husband woke her up in the middle of the night screaming because he had a nightmare. She wanted me to agree with her that her husband's nightmares (for her description, they look more like Night Terrors) are his way of abusing her! (I am totally serious!) When I did not agree, this resulted in a screaming match and one month of Silent Treatment (and 1 week of insomnia for me, of course).
I will try to cheer up my mum a bit this weekend. Wish me luck!
BR
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Post by janine on Jul 17, 2014 20:48:37 GMT
I am sure your mother will appreciate your attention this weekend and affection.
One thing to keep in mind for this might be that you cannot ever possibly carry the weight for everyone else and be the general manager of the universe. That is a sentence a counselor once told me. What a relief when I understood what she meant!! We are not meant to carry the depressing weight of everyone else around us. There might be more to this worthy exploring in a good counseling relationship with a therapist for you- maybe the way your sister and you and your mother cope right now, is the product of some dysfunction between your parents - and their parents etc. Maybe there has been abuse before and your mother has taken the role of the victim (unwillingly) and now accepts your sister's bad behavior.
It did help me to finally move away from focusing in on my mother for example (after I had removed myself physically from living close to her and feeling safe again) and instead focusing on MY own unmet needs, my boundaries, my vision of my life. "Where to draw the line" I mentioned earlier is a great tool to practice some boundary setting ways of communication and how to relieve yourself off of the burden to please everyone...because let's face it, it sounds like it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to please your sister and do right by her!!
That is also almost a gift, don't you think? You really are not in control of her actions and behavior. But you ARE able to focus on yourself. Big sigh out!!She seems to be unhappy about everyone, not just you. That is ALSO a big relief I find. It is NOT about you. It never was!!!!!
One thing I find is very parallel to abusive people and addicted people, is that we - again not willingly or even consciously- ENABLE them to continue their painful games. By engaging in screaming matches or even trying to please them, we ultimately give them what they want,- we give them control and make it ALL about them.
The term 'codependent' comes to my mind in this context- and I know I myself have definitely been codependent on unhealthy people, relationships or even job positions before. There is a great book called "Codependent no more" by Melody Beattie. Now while not ALL of the book's content applies to you (she focuses on family members of alcoholics in some parts of the book) it DOES apply to the general concept of being stuck in focusing in on a dysfunctional family member, and ultimately making it a family 'disease' if you will. Your mom at her old age!! and you and then your daughter now too, are all in it. It sounds like your sister is very narcissistic, it is all about her and her alone- hiding behind a mask of "I just care and do all this nice stuff." That is a very hard dynamic to detect and move away from.
I like to think of it as this theater play. You are up there on stage and your sister keeps writing the script and roles... Now jump off stage for a second- or every time you find your gut reacting to her behavior. Do you like your role that was assigned to you? No? Why are you still on stage? Leave that play, grab a pen and write your own script, the way YOU want it.
Of course this all sounds easier said than done....
Hang in there, post if you would like an ear and if possible, see if you can find a good counselor in your area to go to. it really does help wonders to find a good one and get the work done together!!!
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Post by janine on Jul 17, 2014 20:54:28 GMT
I just also found the term I was looking for.... "detaching with love" If you do not feel comfortable with the idea of cutting your sister out completely, you can learn to detach from your expectations of how she should/could/might be- and simply sit with it how it is. It does NOT mean letting her abuse you or hurt you emotionally or your daughter- of course this kind of healing can only take place if you feel safe and can focus on yourself...
But there are ways you can explore in counseling that help you cope with it all better and be kind to yourself and forgiving to yourself- instead of shaming yourself or drowning in guilt (I am very good at that for example)
Hope that helped....have a great weekend and get a lot of you-daughter-relax time in too!You deserve it!!!!
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Post by alisay on Jul 22, 2014 15:02:29 GMT
Hi all,
The Weekend was OK. My sister tried to barge in with a invitation for lunch at her house (not me, only the rest of the family), but I told her that neither I nor my daughter would be attending, the others could do as they pleased. My mom pleaded but I stood firm. So, she took my daughter from day care on Monday a bit earlier to compensate for not seeing her on Sunday (and also, I guess, to show that she can do what she wants when I am not around since I had to travel this week again)). My daughter came back tired and overexcited, as usual again, because my sister is incapable of doinf something relaxing with her to help her sleep, then we have to deal with the mess.
I was toying with the idea of deying her permission to take her from daycare, but I would think about that a bit. I would like, as Janine has suggested, to do that in a more gentle maner. I think that I need a counselor to feel strong enough and composed enough to do it the right way. Meanwhile, still looking at way to move away from here. Job and house searching is not that easy!
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 23, 2014 12:34:05 GMT
Yeah I would have thought she pulled her out of daycare earlier as well to prove how she 'is in charge'- when really YOU know deep down the only person who has control over yourself - and custody over your own child, is...YOU.
That thought might give you some neutral distance to deal with her in a calm and collected manner, until you dug up other solutions. Once you have your plan all set, feel confident about it etc. maybe after some good counseling as well, you will feel deep down peaceful and right - without second guessing your own perception or decisions. Manipulators are good at leaving us wonder if we might be overly sensitive etc.- so if you are feeling that way around her it is a great indicator that the dynamics might be out of balance...which of course they clearly are!
Deep breaths, take good care of yourself during this time and I am VERY impressed you stood firm when even your mother 'pleaded'- which shows you just how much power your sister has and how your mother enables her behavior. Now this might sound weird, but it is really similar to dealing with an addict. Anyone who directly or indirectly allows your sister to get away with what she does, negatively reinforces her behavior. The only way to stay sane is know your boundaries, do NOT apologize for them or even explain them. There is no need to. Way to go for making this weekend about your own sanity and that of your daughter!!!!
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Post by alisay on Jul 28, 2014 14:02:34 GMT
My sister did it again! I feel so freaking powerless right now and so mad that if I could scream I would leave the population of half the city totally deaf!
She came again to my house, behaving normally (apparently she has decided to forgive ME for calling me selfish in my own house in front of my daughter because I did not what to go on holidays with her and her pathetic husband!). I did not what to upset my mum more, so I accepted talking to her normally, but I told her that I would not accept her invitation for lunch on Sunday again! (Is this woman unable to get a hint!) We organized the weekend around the invitation so that my mum could attend, then she appears on Saturday, when we were leaving for a day at the city centre to tell us that the invitation was actually THAT Saturday, and that other family members were coming. She told us that it had been decided last Monday already. WHO decided? Does she think that we all are at her disposal! She says that she told my mum, but she LIES! She uses my mum occasional forgetfulness as an excuse! So she managed to ruin our weekend plans, of course!
To make things worse, she just told me on Sunday, that she is coming to our apartment as well on holidays, still undecided for how long. In fact, she will be arriving before us! So now my two weeks of holidays have now become the nightmare that were last year's holiday, AGAIN! Last year, for example, she insisted that she and her husband - the Stockholm-syndrome poster boy - were getting the biggest room in the apartment, the only one were my daughter's travel cot would actually fit! I wanted the big room for us three - my mum, baby and me, but no. She got all the space and I had to use the small room with one of the beds lying on its side to leave space for the baby's travel cot, while my mum (an eighty-three-year old woman who actually is the OWNER of the said apartment and all its bedrooms) had to sleep on the sofa! And I could not fight it because my mum, of course, accepted this!
I am so sick and tired of her! I am trying to gather enough courage to tell them all to go to hell and rent a hotel room for a week for me and my daughter. It is a money that I could use for something better, but maybe she will get it finally: I want her OUT OF MY LIFE!
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 28, 2014 18:12:35 GMT
Hey alisay, I wonder if it is time to be assertive and choose for yourself how much you are willing to let your sister dictate your happiness and integrity. By that I mean she can NOT harm or hurt you, unless you comply with her desire to do so. Needless to say to have your 83 year old mother sleep on a couch in her own apartment is without a question absolutely awful. It is time to stop wondering why she does what she does, to focus on her behavior, to try and fix it and to it is time to stop trying to control it. You have enough proof that she is not going to change. YOU on the other hand can! (I say that being fully aware that her behavior would cause me to be very angry if she was my sister and I find it absolutely unacceptable- of course it is easy for me to say what to do, I do not walk in your shoes...so please bare with me and pick and choose which advice feels right for you and which you might want to set aside- it is your right to do that!!!) I would keep it very simple - complete the following sentences for yourself- 1. During my precious holiday time I want to_______________________. 2. In order to be able to do that I have to________________________. 3. I am willing to compromise _____________________________________ for the sake of allowing the family to be together at the same holiday apartment IF that is something you are considering still. 4. I am NOT willing to compromise__________________________________. Once you set your rules and boundaries, stick to them. Give your sister ultimatums if it comes to that. For example- write her an email (to have proof the conversation did take place) or call her with a witness on speakerphone- and say in an assertive but friendly tone " I am aware you and your husband are planning on arriving at mom's holiday apartment before we do and plan to spend the holidays together with us all there. While I appreciate family time, I am not able to be part of this arrangement unless mom, me and my child have the biggest room during the time of our holiday." If she agrees, see if she follows through. If she does not and starts manipulating,---- leave the stage. No need to speak Chinese to a grasshopper. The grasshopper will not understand, ever. If she breaks the rules, state calmly ONCE that you do not wish to continue the holiday under these conditions and have arranged for alternative plans. Leave and wish them a great holiday- refuse phone calls or texts if/when they follow your departure. Get a hotel or do something different for the holidays without explaining it to her or apologizing. Grab your child and do something relaxing BUT have a plan for that. If you go through all possible scenarios in your head before, name the worry, name the anger, explain to yourself what you are willing to do and what not- then have a plan B in place- she has NO more power over you or your happiness. Deep breaths, regain your power and put yourself back into the driver's seat of your life. You can do it!!!!! (and push her out the passenger's seat while you do so of course without anyone getting hurt hehe)
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Post by jeannie812 on Jul 29, 2014 4:41:32 GMT
To Alisay, I had to stop taking favors from my oldest sister cause it turned out that I was selling myself to her. She thought she owned me.
She is also 10 years older and she is childless. She wasn't interested when I had my three oldest (because they were a handful?) and, I always had a man around. and she certainly wasn't interested in taking over Junior, even when I didn't have a man around, cause he was a mad-house. She would have taken him over, but my niece very conveniently had two little sweet girls. But, what big sis wanted from me was to be her built-in-maid/traveling companion/and paying renter. She didn't care that I am a determined home owner fallen on bad times...she wanted my flesh. But, because she wanted my niece's children it became diluted in time. That is a different story that my other sister could tell you cause she didn't like it that big sis was taking over her grandchildren. But, the stuff that oldest sis had pulled! She bought airline tickets for us to fly down to Florida to her TimeShare Condo and then told me (after she bought the tickets) That she can't afford this and I have to pay her back. I was stunned to find out she did this. I can't afford TRAVEL! I have to budget my gas in tank for month, to find out that big sis thinks I can put off my bills to pay her back and then afford the other travel expenses involved with traveling. I was so stunned I didn't know what to say. Then Junior conveniently came down with strep throat right before the trip. That was my ticket out. Cause I told big sis that I will not go on trip, but I begrudgingly said Junior could. Even though it was during the school year which is a NO-NO, and even though I thought how will I pay her back for airline tickets? (that she bought without my knowledge or permission) But, when Junior got the strep throat I told her NO. She is so flighty with getting up and going, that she would not remember his meds. (she always forgot to give him his ADHD med's!) It was any easy out, thank you! No one should travel when they have strep throat.
Anyway, here is the thing with big sis. She being the oldest sister had privileges that the younger kids didn't have. She carried this into adulthood and doesn't respect boundaries. She may back off for the moment. So when you put a stop to her at the moment, all you did was win a battle but you lost the war. The only way to put a stop to it is by no longer asking anything from her. and do not accept anything from her. Even if she tries to drop a something wonderful in your lap...remember there are strings attached, say NO.
10-years ago when I moved out to country. I thought I was moving into a livable mobile home. found out the place was not livable and the water pipes were broken, and the floors were rotted out, and the windows didn't close. Later on I found out from an attorney that mobile home condition doesn't have to be disclosed because it's not a permanent structure. But, when the tax man came out (years later) he said it is permanent because it sits on frost piers. (it all depends on which side your on) Anyway, I needed a break from the drudgery of living in that horrible place. My big sis thought it bought her ownership over me. She was so relentless that I came back to my broken trailer and thought...This is not so bad I was able to swap-out trailers and my current house is better..
This may be different from your sister, but what remains the same is they want something you are not willing to give. So you can't take anything, not one little bit of their time for your needs if the price is too big to pay.
My second oldest sister had to let her daughter move out. (well she wasn't paying the rent anyway) This stopped big sis from coming over to take the grandchildren, and then big sis wasn't in her face taking over her family. My second oldest sisters daughter was so angry cause how dare you evict me when I don't pay rent all the time and so NONE of us see the grandchild.
I guess what I'm saying is that you make a pact with the devil when dealing with certain people
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