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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 30, 2014 22:08:42 GMT
We are a couple of weeks on now..... The puppy dog eyes & crocodile tears arrived... Eventually! & lasted all of a day!! Then the indulgences followed... He took me put for a lovely meal & a night in a hotel!!!! Now... It's just how it always is again.... We were out at the weekend at a friends 50th party... I found myself TOTALLY character assassinating him.. Now all my friends feel sorry for HIM!!!!!! Wtf!!!! We are supposed to be going on a family holiday in August.. He has asked me to book annual leave at work which I have.... Now he has changed his mind...& said to me "why don't you take the 3 kids to your family's for a few days"... My MAJOR worry now is I am turning all out friends against me... Having said that.. I think is rather be lonely & know the truth ..! X
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Post by alisay on Jul 31, 2014 4:15:34 GMT
Hi dwilliamson,
Changing plans in the last minute is one of my sister's favorites way of controlling me. She plans things without ever telling me and invites friends and family, so that if I refuse to attend, I look like an unsociable cow, but if I attend, then the next weekend is the same. And if I complain that she did not tell me, she argues that:
a) I am exaggerating, she did it last week as well and it was ok (because I do not complain last week or the week before that does not mean that it was ok or that it will EVER be ok!) b) This was planned for days, so why do I complain now? (Because she did not tell me, that's why! Does she expect me to read her mind?) c) She did tell me (No, she did not. I am neither crazy nor stupid and I have an excellent memory!) d) She does it for me, so that I can socialize with family and friends (again, I am the unsociable cow! But how can I plan anything if I have to spend all my free time attending to her events like a courtier at her queenly court, nor can I invite anybody if they are constantly being invited by her!)
In my opinion, this change in holiday plans is manipulation. I would tell him that under no circumstances are you prepared to change your plans now, that it is too late, and that you are taking the kids to the holidays and that he is invited to tag along.
From someone who never complained when these things happened in the past and now is trapped, do not let it happen! It is PERFECTLY REASONABLE to refuse changing the holiday plans after you have already asked for leave from work and you should not feel guilty for refusing to do so. It might seem that it is not worth arguing, but if you give in, you will be taken for granted in the future, then you will really have to fight to return to normal.
If you refuse, see how he reacts. It could be very telling.
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 31, 2014 20:21:04 GMT
Hi alisay... I was so pleased to read your words.. He has been telling me today how inconsiderate I have been booking a holiday for me & my children without giving him a chance to try & sort some time off work himself (which he isn't able to do till tomorrow when he returns after a while off). I almost began to feel guilty till I read what you had posted... Now I'm sticking to it no matter what... Even though I am some what daunted as I have never travelled without him "taking control" before!! What he doesn't get (or chooses not to) is him suggesting I go to my family's with the children for a few days made me think we more than happy to not come with us!!! Now I've had the guts to book a trip abroad he's putting me on the guilt trip.... The sad thing is my 3 children are genuinely gutted that their dad isn't coming with us!!! Typical hey... He can play mind games for years & years & years.. Yet my children (& friends) are all it would appear now starting to feel sorry for him!!!!!! Please.... Your support & reassurance is so welcome & is finally starting to keep me strong in standing up to him!! Xx
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Post by alisay on Jul 31, 2014 22:15:01 GMT
It is normal for the children to be a bit upset. As someone in the forum said before, make sure that you explain to them your point of view. Not criticizing him, just explaining that you yourself cannot change the holiday dates because of work and that you did not want to cancel them. They will understand.
I understand about the smashed box being a key turning point in your mind. For me was seeing my sister embark in one of her usual binges of completely unfair name calling, but this time she had my daughter in her arms while she was doing so. As if shouting abuse to me was just a normal thing! And somehow, it is. Her scared little face will forever haunt me. I am going to get her out of this insane situation.
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Post by dwilliamson on Aug 2, 2014 19:33:47 GMT
I am in a bad bad place again! Since the Xbox incident I am struggling still... & this is becoming apparent!! I am struggling to play "happy families" in front of all out friends & have a couple of times let rip in front of them!! He has of course remained Mr Charming throughout my rant! He has now told me that all of my friends are speaking to him, expressing how much they feel sorry for him, & how much they are "beginning to see the real me"..!!! It's making me want to curl up in a ball at home & back off from the lot of them... even the ones I trusted most!! The saddest part is I've brought all of it upon myself... No friends want to be playing mediator for a couple every time they spend an evening together!!! But I just can't seem to stop myself from crying out!! Caring but honest views & advice would be very much appreciated if anyone has ever experienced this in their own situation!
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Post by alisay on Aug 3, 2014 4:23:20 GMT
hi dwilliamson,
Look at you own words. HE is telling you that your friends are siding with him. How does he know? Can he read their minds?
Put yourself a situation where you see one of your friends' marriages is in trouble, where one of them is complaining and ranting. You will not automatically think that the person ranting is the one at fault! You, like any rational person, will give that person the benefit of the doubt and privately conclude that since you cannot possibly know all the details of what is happening in a marriage, you can not and should not judge hastily. You will not certainly jump to conclusions and suddenly decide that you are "seeing the real someone" just because of some ranting!
You are obviously feeling guilty about ranting because you are a good friend that tries to make the lives of your friends as pleasant as possible. On the other hand he does not seem to have the same constraints and is happy to discuss the situation (or his version of it) with other people. If he did not, how does he know that they are siding with him and not with you? Where does that come from?
I see potentially three scenarios here:
1- He lies. 2- He is manipulating your friends. 3- Some of these people might not be the kind of friends that you want.
My money would be on Number 1, potentially Number 2. This comment about "seeing the real you" sounds so contrived that it looks more like he is projecting and telling you what he would like to hear because he is actually insecure and small.
Look at it like just one more attempt to manipulate you.
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Post by dwilliamson on Aug 3, 2014 7:39:28 GMT
I spent all of last night lay in bed questioning where I've gone wrong in life as a person?? Am I really such a nasty, horrible woman who doesn't really have a special close friend?? Am I actually the abusive one?? Am I really part of this problem because I had such high expectations of my marriage??? Alisay - I'm sure you are more than likely correct..! & if that is the case HOW do I cope?? I feel as though I need a coping mechanism to help deal with manipulation ... I'm not going anywhere...because as I've said in the past I need to be there whenever he's with my children.... I'm considering going back on anti-depressants after 3 years of being off them... They just seem to numb everything & help me not get so upset about stuff he does!! There seems to be SO much advice available out there for the women who are ready to flee.... but not so much for the ones that need help, mentally, to stay!! PLEASE..... How do I deal with manipulation in order to stay mentally stable? I don't need the friends... as you quite rightly mentioned in your thoughts...they could well be the kind of friends I don't want anyway... I have my children.. & that's sufficient for me!! I just need to be able to do the 'rise above' thing when he starts his manipulation tactics!! It's amazing how much hope I get from people replying to me! It's amazing to not feel 'alone' for the first time in a long time.. Thank you x
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Post by alisay on Aug 3, 2014 9:34:10 GMT
I cannot say what is the best tactic to cope with that, except getting some counseling as soon as you can. Antidepressants are only a temporary solution. I know, I have used them in the past. I am in the same bad spot as you, having just had a discussion with my sister and told them that I am going to stop their access to my daughter from now on. Of course, I am a monster now.
Has he decided if he is going to go with you on holidays? If you are alone with the children, it would be a great moment to gather your inner strength and decide your next steps.
Stay strong.
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Post by dwilliamson on Aug 3, 2014 9:50:59 GMT
I feel for you... Do you currently live with your sister?? Are you're children really close to her?? I can kind of understand the blood tie.. My own mum too has always been controlling.. & very subtly mentally abused my sister & I... When I was 25 I moved 300 miles away to live alone.. (My sister followed 10 years later) but unfortunately I fell straight into the arms of another abuser (my husband) which I obviously wasn't conscious of at the time!! But don't they say that's rather a common thing after you've grown up with a controlling parent?? You almost know no different! No - he isn't coming on the holiday with us... & I have reminded him several times that the only reason I have done it is because he did SO well at making me feel as though he wasn't bothered about having a holiday with me & the children anyway!! (The comment he made about gong up to see my family on my own with the kids for a few days!) I am looking forward to some space away from him to gather my thoughts... but I'm also very nervous because I have never left the country to go abroad with my children without him before!!! I've had counselling..... DA counselling last year.. They were amazing but I think I frustrated her a little because she knew deep down there was only one way out for me yet I was then & still am adamant I will NEVER leave because I don't want him to EVER have my children when I am not there with him!! X
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Post by alisay on Aug 3, 2014 18:24:15 GMT
My sister lives next door. I moved to be with family after I separation from my ex (another problematic one, who left me feeling like rubbish) and I have regretted ever since. Constant critics of how I choose to live (pretty normal I assure you, but just not like her. Everything is rubbish except her stuff or whatever she has seen at her favorite friend of the moment) plus frequent verbal and occasionally physical violence. Now that I have a daughter, it is getting worse because she uses her to get at me, trying to make me feel like an inadequate mother that needs constantly her superior advice (she chose not to have children, but she has friends with children so she is an expert). She is now pushing it and ignoring my explicit instructions not to do or buy certain things and my daughter is beginning to witness certain things, so I am trying to move away from her.
Of course, now I look like I used her and her husband and now discard them. I am going to be the bad one, because I will be the one leaving. And if you try to explain some of the things that she does, only those who had been witnesses to her behavior could possibly understand, and I do not think that anybody outside the family ever has. So, any common friends are likely to side with her. The truth is simply too unbelievable.
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Post by Lindsey on Nov 7, 2014 18:22:43 GMT
There are a couple of good studies that show that while most kids are better off with two parents, those in "high-conflict relationships" (which almost always means domestic abuse in one form or another) did better when their parents separated. --- Steve Hi Steve, do you have any links to these studies or are they contained in books or journals? Would be an interesting one to have a closer look at and write something about for HH. Glad to see you about again xx Lindsey
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