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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 6, 2014 23:37:40 GMT
Hi Please can anyone help... first of all by telling me whether or not I'm in the right place for a forum chat?? I'm so sorry... a tad upset & this is all new to me! Thanks
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 6, 2014 23:44:05 GMT
Hey dwilliamson and welcome here,
Yes, you are in the right spot. How can we help? What happened? It sounds like someone you are in a relationship with has started to throw things/smash things? That is a HUGE red flag and warning sign of a very abusive personality if that did indeed happen.
We are here if you would like an ear.
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 6, 2014 23:47:37 GMT
Hi Thank you so much for your 'ear'!! I'm very upset... yes... tonight my husband has just thrown my 3 angels xbox on the tiled floor & smashed it!!! I feel gutted! We have had a few problems for a long time really... I am almost certain he is a bully with a possible mild personality disorder... but never anything like this tonight... What upsets me even more.. he has devastated the whole family & now he is snoring in bed!!! I am aware no one can tell me what to do... but I really really need support.. I'm VERY lonely xx
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 6, 2014 23:56:00 GMT
When you say red fag...are you saying this isn't ever going to get any better...? Just worse?? x
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 6, 2014 23:56:15 GMT
*flag
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 7, 2014 0:26:21 GMT
If you would like to find out more about the prospects of an abusive partner to change for the better, I highly recommend you a book by a very experienced therapist called "Why does he do that" written by Lundy Bancroft. Lundy has worked with abused women for about 30 years now I think and he also mentions how unlikely it is that an abuser changes.
What happens is the abuse goes on and increases over time, with little breaks in between called "Honeymoon Phase". The entire cycle is called "cycle of violence" and often times you as a victim think during the 'good times' it really was not all that bad, you are just being overly sensitive and all couples have issues....and all of those others things we tell ourselves when we minimize abuse in our relationships.
If you have had issues before and did not expect him to smash a beloved item of yours like he did today (your X-Box) then he will most likely do it again and escalate. Most women do NOT expect that serious physical abuse can come out of behavior like smashing things, punching walls or being emotionally abusive, but sadly it almost always does.
The book I recommended above can be a great starting point for you to read up on abuse in relationships and see if you see him and his behavior choices in the chapters you read. I HIGHLY recommend you hide the book from him (have it sent to a trusted friend for example and leave it there or at work where he cannot find it) and also please clear your browser history tonight and every time you google "domestic violence" or anything like it.
Abusers are all about control. They often times check your internet browsing history and phone etc. and when they fear they lose control over you, they first start smashing things to show you "what I can do if things do not go as I want them." Do not be surprised if tomorrow he either goes all crocodile tears/puppy eyes and apologizes and begs you to forgive and explains how he will get help and all those things- only to never follow through. He might be very nice to you for some time before he goes back to being openly abusive. The 'nice' episodes are also part of the abuse and he HAS to be nice at times to keep you with him and make you think you are going crazy- that really he is a nice guy, he really cannot be that bad and it was probably nothing worth worrying about.
Something in your gut and heart told you to google domestic violence and you found us. Listen to THAT voice...it will keep you safe.
You can also call a general DV hotline anonymously from a safe phone if you would like to talk to a professional counselor or see a general counselor by yourself to see how you can empower yourself and figure out what is next.
We are here if you would like to share more or have specific questions or would like advice. I have survived an abusive Ex and many here have too. We understand how complicated the dynamics are and how scary and 'unreal' this time feels when you first feel something is 'off' and not right.
There are tons of good articles on this website too if you want to read up more about domestic violence and see what fits your own situation.
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 7, 2014 0:38:49 GMT
Thank you so much for your reply... The length of it means so much!! I probably didn't make things too clear... We have been married for nearly 14 years & have 3 children...aged 14, 12 & 10... It was their Xbox that he smashed... In front of them! Just because my 12 year old wanted 5 more minutes before he went to bed!! U nearly left him 3 years ago.. I kind of met someone else but it didn't go anywhere! I have since recieved DA counselling because all it's left me with is guilt over what it's done to my 3 children as it all got out!!! However we've "worked" at it... & exactly as you describe...there are the honeymoon periods when I tell myself things are not really so bad... But surely these are not the actions of a normal functional husband??? I very scared... But where I really need help is having some convincing that me & my children are better off leaving him than staying... I can't seem to sort out in my head that it's better for them... Because the way I see it he's still going to be in their lives whether I'm with him or not... & if I'm not, how can I be sure how he's treating them? ? Thank you again.... So much!
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 7, 2014 2:05:29 GMT
Actually Lundy Bancroft also has a GREAT book about the effect domestic abuse (even if they just witness it without being direct victims) can have on children if you would like to read more professional information about why leaving an abuser is essential for the emotional and physical well-being of children as well.
Nobody can or should convince you that leaving him is better I believe. Only you can get to the point where you understand and see for yourself that living in a home like this cannot be healthy for them and you. It is not easy of course and having three children with an abuser is a good reason for wanting to try and fix it all, make it better and work things out for as long as you can.... there is so much hope involved!
If you would like to talk to someone who can simply give you free options, call a DV hotline or local shelter in your area. You do not have to tell them your name. You can simply call and ask what options they have for a possible victim and mother of three. I just called a hotline the other day actually for a friend of mine who has two little kids and is unemployed and wants to leave her abuser. We found out there is TONS of free help! From free counseling for her and the kids, to financial help, to being able to stay for quite a good while at a safe house etc. over help to find a new job etc.
It really all depends on how safe you are and what he is capable of. If you feel your life or that of your kids is in danger, call the police. If you want to rather check out quietly possible pathways out of this marriage in the future, a shelter or DV hotline can be great resources.
Many abusers will put up a good fight when you leave them so caution and careful legal support are advised.
There IS a way. There is help. You have to feel ready to take advantage of the system and make an informed decision if you do decide to leave him some day. You do not have to decide anything tonight of course. A good sleep, lots of water, being physically rested and fit will help you to stay calm and head leveled throughout this time.
As always, be careful in your safety planning....delete all browser history, make phone calls only from safe phones and keep your thoughts about leaving a secret from him...abusers do often escalate their behavior if they fear they lose control.
We are here, you are not alone!
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 7, 2014 23:58:47 GMT
Lundy's book is called "The Batterer as Parent." It is very likely that if he is unfair and controlling and irrational with you, he will be that way with the kids, too. Consider how irrational it is to destroy someone's X-Box just because he (as most normal kids do) tried to see if he could extend his time a bit. What does that do to a child to live with that kind of insanity?
There are a couple of good studies that show that while most kids are better off with two parents, those in "high-conflict relationships" (which almost always means domestic abuse in one form or another) did better when their parents separated. It is very hard on them (and you) initially, but in the end, they are almost always appreciative of your intentions in getting away. In fact, many adults I've talked to say they wish their mom (or occasionally their dad) had left much sooner so they didn't have to deal with the constant anxiety that a DV relationship creates for them.
It's true they will still probably have some contact with their dad, and I appreciate your concern about what he might do to them in your absence. This is actually a very common reason given for staying with an abusive partner. How old are the kids? And what are you worried he'd do to them if he were left alone with them? Depending on your answers, I might give differing advice on how to handle it. But bottom line, they are being damaged every day by witnessing this, so you are definitely not hurting them by trying to get them away from their abusive dad. He sounds scary!
I'll wait to hear your answers before I comment further. Find your local DV hotline, and keep posting!
--- Steve
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Post by orange on Jul 8, 2014 7:55:17 GMT
Hey,
The smashing things is scary. And how upsetting for your children. It's not a normal way to react to a child wanting to play games for longer. I can speak from experience that watching a parent being abused is damaging. I was directly abused, but also "just" seeing my mother being abused again and again was damaging. If you want my blunt honesty, I feel watching a parent being abused probably lead to me being abused as an adult. I don't think it had much less effect than being directly abused did. It would have helped watching what a healthy relationship is surely.
I hope that isn't too blunt. I really feel for you. You want to do the right thing, society tells you keeping the family together is the right thing to do. But the right thing is you and your children being alive and happy. Of course I can talk - i'm still very much with a man that gets abusive, still in love with him! No children though. Best of luck and keep us posted if you can!
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Post by orange on Jul 8, 2014 8:03:19 GMT
Oh and if you have any questions or anything, about witnessing abuse, feel free to ask here!
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 8, 2014 21:40:40 GMT
I just can't tell you all how grateful I am that you are offering your words of support... Just knowing I am a part of this forum has given me some strength over the last couple of days... I can't tell you how lifted I felt this evening when I saw your replies... So - first of all... 2 days later, there have been no puppy dog eyes.. or crocodile tears.. in fact just blame shifting.. telling me it's my fault for not backing him re. my 12 year old going to bed! So - we have 1 son age 14, 1 son age 12 & a daughter age 10. I will admit that our 12 year old (the one who wanted a few minutes longer on his Xbox!!) is slightly less agreeable than the other 2.. in my mind I put it down to the fact that his dad cannot 'control' him therefore he gets the brunt of his bad moods & aggression. I have deliberated over this question for a few years now............. IS THIS DOMESTIC ABUSE OR NOT? ? Almost 3 years ago I contemplated leaving my husband for another man (a friend of his!!!) I was at a low ebb with him & this friend showed an interest in me... We had what I refer to as a 'fling' however I never got totally involved with this man (sexually!!!) It was only a matter of weeks before I woke up & realised just what the hell I had got myself into.... I didn't really want this man... I was just desperate to be loved!! I ended things but unfortunately the whole sorry story got out & my husband (& children) found out!! To cut a long story short.. my husband & I stayed together because although he was hurt etc. etc. he said he thought it was worth the fight. I truly believed that he had had a huge wake-up call & this would be the turning point for him treating me how I wanted to be treated! The worst of it all was what it had left me with... GUILT, GUILT & MORE GUILT, over what I have done to my children!! I decided to seek counselling from a local DA service who were amazing!!! The counsellor gave me the light-bulb moment I had needed to make me understand how someone as moral & trustworthy as me could even contemplate an affair!! Although I still struggle with ''is this DA or is it not??'' she made me realise just how subtle it can be..... When my marriage is going well.. it's going really really well... for very long periods... when it isn't - isn't... Yet still I can't be sure it's abuse!!!! How do I decipher whether or not the whole Xbox incident (which makes me feel sick to my stomach!!) was/is DA or whether all of the people on this forum are just slightly biased because of their own experiences? I WHOLE HEARTEDLY mean that with the upmost respect for everyone helping me on here... I am in no way minimising anything... I just GENUINELY need some clarity.. & help!! Again - I feel so alone!!! Steve - in answer to your question 'what are you worried he'd do to them if he were left alone with them?'.... honestly?? I don't know anymore!! Their dad, my husband that I have been with for almost 17 years, up until these last couple of years, I would have bet every penny I had on him treating them how he should... But - is this a classic case of a DA perpetrator slowly simmering & his abusive behaviour slowly progressing? ? In which case I just don't feel ready/prepared to risk never not being there for my babies!! Look forward to hearing more from you all!
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 9, 2014 1:27:49 GMT
That is very understandable that you would want to think through it all to make sure it IS indeed a pattern of domestic abuse. I too felt the first time i googled help forums and researched articles that 'maybe iam not really suited to write there and my situation is not as bad'. And it might be!! It is VERY good that you make your own opinion and carefully review what other people (on top of that complete strangers online hehe) suggest or say.
In the end YOU will know what is going on and you will make the right choices. Trust your gut. Inform yourself by reading a few books if that feels comfortable and it sounds like your counseling experience was also very positive.
Smashing things is definitely one step beyond 'normal couple issues and normal anger'. Maybe it would help you to review the earlier years, was there anything that raised your inner red flags, some situations that kept coming up you felt odd about but felt like "trying to nail jelly to the ceiling/couldnt point your finger at it'?
If it is unbearable for you right now you could always suggest couple's counseling too. A good, normal man would understand smashing your kids X-Box and then not explaining to them why he did it and apologize, is NOT ok. And a normal man would want to get help to deal with this. Also, I wondered, is your one son maybe just imitating his dad? Just a thought....Kids are VERY good at not listening to what we say but they are VERY good at imitating what they see and how they are treated.
The good periods of an abusive relationship for example are called "Honeymoon Phase", you can read up on all of that in "Why does he do that" the book is worth gold. And he HAS to be kind and nice for periods of time because otherwise why would anyone put up with the blow-ups and walking on eggshells during the periods he chooses to be controlling/abusive?
Hang in there, observe from a neutral standpoint whenever possible. We are here if you need an ear.
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Post by brownie on Jul 9, 2014 18:12:03 GMT
Hello I just wanted to comment to you about your children and your husband. I have two children grown now. My husband has smashed many things in front of my kids. I can't really give you good advice about being a wife as I have alot of work myself. However I would suggest lots of talking and reassuring with your kids about what's happening. As your children get older especially the boys they will challenge him more. My son challenged my husband until he began to realize it affected me. As a mom keep explaining to your children that dad's behavior and moods are not right and it's not their fault. This is very hard because it will bring many questions to you from them like why do you stay why do you let him hurt you. But allow them to express to you these things and try not to justify yourself but be honest with them while loving them through it. I also taught my kids to recognize his moods when they were older as best they could. They also had an agreement with a friend from church that they could go to there house at any time. If he seemed like it would be a really bad night they would go for the night. Teach your children safety and continue to reassure them the right and wrong. I would always have a sit down with them and explain the situation and how and where it went wrong and why. It's really a fine line but I so wanted them to have a right understanding and not a twisted view, without causing dis respect to their dad. My heart goes out to you and you are in my prayers.
I hope the advice I gave is ok and not wrong. Please someone correct me if I have said anything out of turn. Thanks. Brownie
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 9, 2014 18:41:27 GMT
Brownie..can I thank you for your words!! They all really help! May I ask are you still with your husband?? And if so, do you ever look back & think you maybe should have left? One question along the subject of being honest with my kids... why DO we stay??? I just don't really know... It's a complete 50/50 split down the middle for me... 50 I know it's right to get out...50 I stay because I don't want to ever spend a single day not seeing my children when they are with their dad!! I'm pretty stuck really... Stuck in the hope that things will never deteriorate!!!
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Post by brownie on Jul 9, 2014 19:34:53 GMT
I always think if only I would have left that first time... But I didn't and then I was having our first baby. Again answering the question why do we stay I was always honest. Honest when they were older of course. I was always honest at an age appropriate level. But I would say I don't know why mommy doesn't leave I'm scared to. I would say I'm here because I believe God wants me to do all I can to be a good wife. I even have said I want to leave but think I'm to weak to do it I'm afraid of the fight daddy might give me I've said I want to keep you safe and it seems that would be me staying and havmg some control when your with daddy. I also would always remind them that the behavior of being physcial with someone or screaming/degrading them is not right. I always enforced it doesn't matter what the person does. I'm sure your husband like mine will try to justify why they do what they do my struggle is I so believe everything he says and believe I do deserve certain punishments. It's ok to tell your children you don't know but you love them and want to do what will keep them safe.
Brownie
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Post by Finally free on Jul 9, 2014 21:24:54 GMT
Hi, I just wanted to say hi, also that it doesnt get any better and the children will be affected in the long run. You think at the time they dont see feel and hear half of what they actually do. It is very damaging and I think leaving him and the destruction sooner rather than later is the best for you all, your children will see that you are a strong woman who deserves love and so do they.
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Post by dwilliamson on Jul 11, 2014 21:03:23 GMT
Hi all.... Thank you finallyfree... In my gut I know you are right......... HOWEVER!! I STILL stupidly am not ready to leave.. This has been such a weird week.... the most weirdest I have had for many years... it has dawned on me that I neither want my husband any more... but alongside that realise life will be so much easier with him.... financially!!!! It has hit me... all he has been really is a sperm donor... & a bank donor!!!! I haven't been able to eat properly all week.... nor sleep... I just cannot seem to gain closure on the Xbox incident!!! He keeps saying that my boys behaviour is due to the amount of time he spends on the xbox & that I don't do anything to monitor this??? HE IS STILL MANAGING TO CONFUSE ME & MAKE ME THINK MAYBE HE HAS A POINT? ? There has still been no sign of crocodile tears...... or apologies..... ? Any replies very welcome!
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Post by orange on Jul 13, 2014 0:10:14 GMT
I think the Xbox incident is at least a big red flag. Would you have reacted in the same way? I know I wouldn't. And imo it was a very mean thing to do to your children. It was also intimidating to you all. I would guess there are other abusive things he does. You might not have realised they're abusive? I just think it's unlikely this was the only abusive action he's done. Leaving is really hard. There are so many reasons people stay. Just try to keep you and your children safe. Have you been in touch with a helpline?x
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Post by Finally free on Jul 14, 2014 18:03:26 GMT
Hi dwilliamson,
I know the feeling of not being ready to leave yet....my first abusive marriage I stayed in for 8 years, thought financially I would be better st ataying and putting up with him than to leave, even though I didnt love him anymore...I came out of that with 45 thousand pounds worth of HIS debt, he'd been controlling finances even signing my name, I fought for 4 years and in the end court had to rule that half the debt would be mine as he couldnt prove I hadnt signed papers etc and I couldnt prove he had forged my name. It was still hard leaving, I went bankrupt, started again and fell for another abuser...when I shouldve sought counselling first!! Another 7 years with an abusive partner and it took to the point of being told I would be killed by him and frightening me so much that I HAD to leave.
These situations only get worse, and I used to think that I didnt deserve any better, abuse has followed me since a child and then i decide to go for counselling, find support workers and yes it was extremely difficult at first, constant Police involved in many breaches but its almost over now and I am so happy and SAFE at last. I have deleted the abusers out of my life (mother, sister, exes) and finally have found the happiness I never thought was available to me. You may not be ready to leave and im not saying its easy, but life is so short, YOU deserve love and happiness x
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