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Post by Rory on Oct 18, 2014 23:50:34 GMT
Well, that was fun while it lasted. Another double whammy. My 19-year old called yesterday and said she's thinking of going to visit her ex next week. She said she just wants to say goodbye. She thinks it's okay because her ex is in jail and can't hurt her. I tried to get her to understand that seeing her, even for a quick goodbye, would only encourage her to continue pursuing my daughter when she gets out, and would only feed her ex's obsession. I reminded her that this was the person who raped her. Of course in this ass backward state, only men can be convicted of rape--by definition, there must be a penis involved--but let's call it what it is. So, she promised she'd think about what I said, but I don't know if I got through.
Also, today is my 41st birthday, and for my first gift, at 7am, I got a call from my ex.
"Happy birthday." That was the first thing he said. I recognized his voice right away. It's amazing how even after all these years, I still get a lump in my throat when I hear it. I said, "Why are you calling here?" My husband tried to take the phone at that point, but I didn't let him.
I told my ex that my husband would be arranging the visit to see his grandmother through his grandmother and aunt, and there was no need for him to be involved. No need for him to be calling our house. Because no one in this house is interested in seeing or talking to him. Our children are grown and if any of them wanted to see him, they know how to get in touch with him.
He said it was about our 19-year old. His aunt apparently told him that she wouldn't be coming to visit his grandmother. And he wanted to hear it from our daughter himself. I told him no way. He started in about how she's his daughter too, and how he has a right to talk to her, and how evil I am for keeping her from him all these years.
Well, he stopped showing up for visitation when she was four. I told him a couple of years after that, the girls didn't want to see him anymore, and since he hadn't bothered to show up in two years, he could take me back to court if he wanted to start visitation again. He had until she was sixteen to do that, and he never did. He saw my 19- and 24-year olds a few times off and on when I took my middle daughter (who wanted to see him) to visit, but he never actively pursued anything.
I didn't remind him of all that, though. There was so much BS in his statement, I didn't even know where to begin. So I didn't. I told him I wasn't going to discuss it, not to call here anymore, and hung up the phone. He called back. Twice. The second time, I picked up and said if he called one more time, today or ever, I'd call the police. He hasn't called back. I can't believe his nerve.
My husband said he was impressed at how tough I was, but truthfully, I was shaking inside. It's been near 20 years, and he can still shake me up. It never goes away completely.
My husband already called back my ex's aunt and asked her not to share anything with my ex in the future regarding me, or the kids, and if it happened again, they wouldn't be able to visit. He said she was very apologetic and said she was under the impression that my ex and I were on friendly terms. Um, no. So my husband wants to change our phone number. It's just our house phone; my ex doesn't have my cell phone number. I can't really argue with him on it, except my husband has a business and his customers sometimes call our home phone on the weekends, and just the fact that I feel forced to do it by my ex and it just makes me angry that he can do that. But it's for the best. The last thing I'd want to happen is for one of my girls to be here visiting and pick up the phone and hear his voice at the the other end.
So, fingers crossed that will be the end of hearing from him, and I really really hope my daughter remembers what I said and decides against that visit with her ex. I know it's so hard when you first get out. It's like an addiction, and one that is so hard to break. There's a country song (and you can change the genders to fit the relationship, but it's the same) that goes:
She's like a needle to a junky, she's like whiskey to a drunk
she's like poker to a gambler, she's like a bullet in a gun
She's in his blood, he can't explain the rush
When he gets with her
Might be the death of him, but he's addicted, man
He can't quit her
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karen
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"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518 
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Post by karen on Oct 19, 2014 3:46:33 GMT
Hi Rory...I am so sorry it was shortlived! I agree with the Addiction analogy...I really feel that is true..it is like cigarettes are the abuser..we have to quit cold turkey, we know it isn't good for us health wise or any wise, but we can't hate the cigarettes..we still love the cigarettes. I understand the "no contact is best"..it is taking me a while to figure this out...I am also figuring out that there really isn't ever going to be anything I can say to my ex that will make a difference in how he thinks. For every good comeback I have..he seems to have a better one..the best response clearly is no response. I am very determined to do this...I have to do this. Your ex knew exactly what he was doing when he called you..exactly. I hope your daughter can see the addiction...the only way to get back at the abuser is to ignore him and take away his/her ability to control. They don't listen to reason..they only want to feed their need to control us...the only "weapon" we have is to take that away their ability to control. I struggle everyday to find something to replace that "craving" I have to want to talk to my ex or see him..unfortunately..negative attention is still attention and sometimes I think we are willing to take that as it is better than no attention at all. Hang in there..your husband sounds amazing! He gives me hope that a decent man does exist out there in the world!
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Post by Rory on Oct 19, 2014 5:54:44 GMT
Hi Kann, Thank you for your reply! I read your story, and I'm so glad you got out of there. Emotional abuse is often far worse long-term than anything else. I experienced some pretty serious physical and sexual abuse, but what stands out the most to this day is the way he made me feel. He had me convinced at times that I really was crazy, that I was imagining things, over reacting to things. If a stranger on the street just up and hit you, or started berating you verbally, there's no way they'd be able to convince you to say, have coffee with them. You'd fight back, or separate yourself from them as quickly as you could. You might even call the police. You wouldn't think twice about it. But with our abusers, we often don't know what to do. They trap us and keep us in a state of confusion through emotional and psychological abuse. Alternating between building us up and tearing us down, until we don't know which way is up and we no longer trust our own thoughts and intuition. That's what keeps us there, not being hit. Some do go on to physically abuse us and some don't, but either way, they've got us. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you don't "qualify" as an abuse survivor just because you weren't hit, and don't ever think that, either. And you are right. You can't win with them. They are very good at what they do. Even after you begin to see through their games, they will find a way to drag you back into them. That's why no-contact is so important, if you can. I wasn't able to go zero contact because we had kids together and he had visitation rights. So it took me a very long time to cut those emotional ties. It would have taken me a lot less time, I'm sure, if I had been able to cut him off completely. I'm at the point with my ex that I can see his game from a mile away, and I'm able to squash it immediately. Cut him off, hang up the phone, conversation over. But it's a process. You'll get there, and I'm sure my daughter will too. I just hope she gets there without needing another wake-up call. Oh, and yes, my husband is pretty awesome.  We've been married 12 years, but we met 17 years ago. He waited almost 5 years, until I was ready, and felt safe enough to make that commitment again. I had sworn I'd never get married again, and I'd certainly never have more kids, and be forever tied to another man. I didn't know that men as patient and amazing as my husband even existed. Just one example. My middle daughter was ten years old when we married, and she had no interest in having a stepfather. She gave him hell. She was an absolute nightmare for about a year and a half there. It got to the point where I took out a belt. I hadn't spanked my kids since I'd left my ex, and I'd told myself I wouldn't do it again. But I didn't know what else to do. I thought that maybe what my parents, and many of my other family members were telling me was right, that she just needed a "good whipping". Now, my father didn't spank us, he beat us, but I thought maybe a few whacks with the belt would make her see the light. But my husband took the belt from me and said softly, "No." He said, just give her time. He reminded me that even though she was just 4 when I left my ex, she was affected. She was scarred, too. He didn't just endure her abuse, mind you, or allow her to go off unchecked. He'd send her to her room and tell her she could return when her behavior was under control. He never demanded respect, or that she accept him as her stepfather. But he did insist on civilized behavior. And he was calm, steady and consistent, and eventually she learned that it wasn't worth it, that she was missing out on a lot of happiness by being angry and hateful. And she began to respect him. I don't know that she ever thought of him as her dad, like my other two did, until she left for college. She couldn't wait to get out of the "hellhole", as she called our town. She moved 800 miles away. But before she left, he surprised her (and me!) with a video he'd made of her growing up years, from age six on, with a song called "I Wish" as the soundtrack. You can Google the song--it's by a group called Rascal Flatts, but it brought my daughter to tears. She said she never knew he thought so much of her. And before she got on the plane to fly off to school, she said to him, "I love you, Dad." It was the first time she'd said those words to him. Wow, sorry to go on and on. But I just want you to know, there are some incredible men out there, so don't give up on finding someone who will show you true respect and love you, not for who he wants you to be, but for who you really are. You deserve it. We all do. |
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karen
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"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on Oct 19, 2014 12:09:20 GMT
Thank you Rory...you have given me hope...hope that I will heal, hope that I will be the strong, self-confident person I was before. I am a changed person, and I am trying to embrace that and find a "new me". You did not go on and on...you have been very helpful!
Just a quick note..had a "joy" last night. My ex-boyfriend (not my ex husband..I have both) had strongly influenced me to cut myself off from my in-laws. My sister-in-laws have been like 3 older sisters to me, they are closer to me than they are to my ex-husband. My abuser did not want me having contact with them, so I pretty much didn't. He also thought my kids should not have any contact with them. My sister-in-laws and my husband whole huge family are the best people..but I distanced myself because the abuser had me concerned that they were "meddling" into my life and he didn't want them near us. These women had never hurt me ever..it didn't feel right, but I was starting to suspect that they would give info to my husband (we weren't divorced yet) and he would cause problems. So I stopped contact. Long story short...one of them was who I talked to last night. She is extremely close to my daughter and I had told my then 13 year old not to say anything to her aunt about my relationship with my abuser. This had a really upsetting affect on their relationship...I have always tried not to hurt people in my life...and I really hurt my sister-in-law and my daughter...no realizing what I was doing. My sister-in-law and I ended the conversation last night with "love you"..which is how we always did. I need to encourage my daughter to feel comfortable talking to her aunt again..I feel horrible that I did that. My daughter did not see any abuse from my abuser..she told me she thought he was weird...but he took she and I on a trip to New York and she had a dream come true by meeting her favorite actress on Broadway..so to her he is pretty cool. She doesn't miss him though.
I need to recover some relationships and thankfully my sister-in-law forgave me. Have a few more to do...and I will. It is a joy..a positive in a lot of negative! Thank you again!
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janine
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Post by janine on Oct 19, 2014 20:30:52 GMT
Hey Rory,
Well done on your part!!! My first thought was too: "Change that house phone number." My mother dealt with my father in a similar way- he tried and abuse her up until I was 4, the whole show "you try and keep my child from me, I am such a poor puppy victim blabla blubs blubs bla." Of course he never gave a shit (there, I said it) about me or my brother. When I was about 19 or 20 he tried to 'come back into my life'-- and that poor show is not even worth mentioning.
I have no desire to ever meet the man and quite frankly no child should ever be asked to be emotionally a caretaker of a parent.
Your ex has NO reason at all to ever contact you again, for the rest of his life. It just sucks (oops, there goes another bad word again) a lot that this happened all at once- the grandmother dying, your daughter going through abuse and the new contact with your ex. Screw him, this is your life now and he is a sad worm that will not play a role in your life anymore.
It is your birthday and a new year full of being in a safe and healthy marriage. Happy birthday from me!!!!
I also feared your daughter would still be so traumatized and experience traumatic bonding, that she would want that 'closure' talk. And only a male conservative could have made a law where rape has to involve a penis only. You can only shake your head at that. Were they drunk when they came up with that or what?!!
One thing that might help for you in the weeks/months to come is that we cannot control others- we can only take good care of ourselves, be kind to ourselves and control how we react and act. You did all you could for your daughter, and continue to be an anchor. Given her young age and that she has only been in counseling one time so far, it is no wonder the abuse and rape and courtroom experience and contact with police were traumatizing.
Abusers know that. My ex for example kept on trying to make me drop the charges and pretended it was 'us against the world'-- it really is a physical/chemical bond that is being created in the brain by trauma, -- and this chemical craving/malfunction of the brain leads people to want that contact with a dangerous and abusive person.
One thing I bet though is that even if your daughter does not go now, the ex will try and crawl back into her life once she is out. Maybe the visit will open your daughter's mind more to the fact that she should not be living a life in fear and ask for closure from a person who raped her and would hurt her again if she had the chance.
Maybe one thing you can say it that you understand that she feels that craving to go see her- and that she should never feel ashamed about anything. Whatever she feels, is ok. And ask her if she heard about the term 'traumatic bonding' -- "Why does he do that" does a great job too at explaining trauma and why it takes sometimes several attempts to leave an abuser.
as a mother or friend, the one strong weapon you have against the manipulations of the abuser is being the anchor. Be there for your daughter - no matter what. (i know you do that anyways) and let her know that she is brave when she shares with you how she feels--- that nothing was her fault and the shame does not belong to her.
Often victims of abuse feel so pulled into all kinds of directions by all the 'you should NOT's' from people around them- of course the biggest one being the abuser himself/herself, they simply do not want to listen to your voice of reason. If they feel on the other hand empowered, respected, have room to make mistakes and do not get punished for them- and start to accept and embrace their own feelings-- they come out stronger and start building a healthy bond with those people.
Of course it was totally appropriate of you to mention how dangerous such a contact would be!!!! I would have reacted 100% like you did.
We are here, and I am very glad you updated us on the state of your daughter and yourself. Maybe now really is a good time for you to reconsider visiting a good counselor. With your past positive experience of one maybe even just a few session help rebuild your inner core so that all of this is digested and worked through.
Cannot wait for you to have a new house number and your daughter being in counseling a bit longer and growing her inner strength back up!!
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Post by Rory on Oct 20, 2014 20:21:03 GMT
Well, my number is changed. The only way he could contact me now would be through snail mail, or showing up at my house. Given that we now live 1600 miles apart, I don't think that's likely. He left a nasty message before the number was changed, though. Basically, how dare I or my husband tell his aunt what she is or isn't allowed to tell me. He said it's none of our business. Really?? I saved the message, but I don't think I'll hear from him anymore.
My daughter is going to visit her ex tomorrow morning. I told her I understand, I went through the same thing with her father, and I will support her no matter what. It was very hard to do because I really was screaming inside and I want to shake her. Ah, but maybe you're right. Maybe she will be able to look at things with a new perspective and realize that going back to the life she was living isn't what she wants. Fortunately, she has a counseling session tomorrow afternoon so hopefully the counselor will be able to help her work through the emotions that I'm sure she'll be feeling after seeing her ex.
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janine
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Post by janine on Oct 20, 2014 20:35:38 GMT
I am also very glad your daughter has a counseling session right after the visit. In the end it is up to the victim to choose how the healing process is going. I too went back to talk and I remember thinking: 'That dirty, useless worm. WHY was I ever attracted to him? He is so sick." I am hoping your daughter has a similar experience. And if not, she has a great family and a counselor in her corner to work through things. Either way she will slowly empower herself over the next weeks and she will not be the same helpless victim she was before. Now everyone knows and her ex has a file with the officials. As for your ex- it sounds like it would be wise to stay away from ALL of his family from now on. The aunt may have meant well but she is in HIS corner, not yours, as she has proven by twice passing on information about what you said to her to him. Luckily the number is changed and you are in charge of choosing who gets in and who does not. The aunt chose and there is no pity for her, and no excuses for her behavior. She should not have passed on what you said- and those are often times the most dangerous allies of the abuser. The ones who 'didnt know that things were still not ok between him and you/the ones who pretend that they thought you got along again" ....it is all lies and if not that, so irresponsible of these people to act like this. I kicked all of the people out of my life who dared to question my right to be scared and angry at my Ex, life is too short to argue with idiots. hang in there, your daughter will grow stronger each day and you did again!!! a fantastic job in supporting her through this. The upside is that she will most likely tell you how she really feels and what she does. If pushed too hard sometimes the well intended help turns actually out to be good for the abuser, because the victim feels shame for letting down family and friends and then again has a stronger traumatic bond with the person who caused the abuse. Breathe it all out, your ex is in the past. His laughable calls are annoying but that is all. He cannot ever get to you and you are safe now. Your husband sounds like one heck of a man! Very supportive and well chosen by you |
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Post by Rory on Oct 21, 2014 22:38:12 GMT
Wow, so my daughter called me to tell me how the visit with her ex went. She said her ex was acting like she was "on something". And maybe she was, because she told my daughter that she told one of the guards they'd better take her socks so she didn't off herself, and they sent her to see the psychiatrist. She told my daughter, "Bastards. I was just kidding." And my daughter said she kept getting up and pacing and running her fingers through her hair.
My daughter told her it was over, and her ex told her that the night before she attacked my daughter, she'd had a dream that she was on an island and my daughter was there, with a guy. She named the guy. It was someone my daughter went out with in high school, for about six months. So when my daughter told her she wanted to go to Alaska, all she could see was my daughter there with this ex-boyfriend.
So that was her bullshit story. When my daughter said she just couldn't come back, she said the ex started sweating and crying and twitching. Acting crazy, basically. She told my daughter, "Goodbye", then tried to kiss her but the guard stopped her.
So either she really was on something or she's crazier than we thought. I don't know. My daughter said her counselor made her feel better, but she was pretty upset still. On the upside, she said she never wants to see her ex again.
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Post by Rory on Oct 21, 2014 22:49:20 GMT
Oh, and I'm going up there this Friday to spend the weekend again.
My 22-year old will fly in from Europe a week from tomorrow. She and my other daughter, my grandkids and husband are still going down to see my ex's grandmother later that week. We figured it's not her fault, the way my ex and his aunt have behaved. It's her wish to see them, so they're going to do it. But after she passes away, there's no one on my ex's side they feel the need to stay in touch with. So that should be the end of that. Hopefully.
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janine
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Post by janine on Oct 22, 2014 13:29:29 GMT
I would not be surprised if her Ex pulled of the "see, it was JUST a mental illness that made me do all that" move. But it sounds like your daughter found some sort of closure, and again, you did all you could and it is AMAZING your daughter told you all along she was going to see her and how it went. I lied to everyone but the board here, and my therapist years ago. I felt too ashamed to tell anyone I had gone back three times to see my ex before I finally really let go and moved on.
The solution you found with your husband regarding visiting the kid's grandmother sounds as ideal as it can get too. It really was not her fault and if they all feel the wish to see her, it will help them grieve her loss and maybe help her to let go and move on to the next place...
You all deserve a big break and long holiday after this. To be honest I find you are really being great to yourself and you loved ones right now- and this shows you are a true survivor! Not a victim anymore. In a way i do not like the word 'victim' anyways, as it sounds so helpless and hopeless--- when really I believe all women (and men) who have experienced abuse are fighters and extremely strong. Abusers do NOT take anything from us- they don't have the power to do this. I like to think of us being smart - we hide our gifts and light for a while from them...and when we are out and safe, bring it back up.
I hope your daughter now has time to enjoy her fall semester, feel safe on campus and have midterms and papers distract her mind. Also tons of inspiring conversations with classmates and professors- and everything pointing her at a bright future she has!
The same for you as well- no matter what/if your ex does anything when your husband and the kids go to see the grandmother, he has NO power left. He never had any power- you just needed time to find a way to bring your light back out and kick him out. Give yourself a huge hug and high five from me- your ex is now just a little loud dog yapping away, but in no way has he control over you anymore, and he never ever will again.
You are safe now!
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We've been married 12 years, but we met 17 years ago. He waited almost 5 years, until I was ready, and felt safe enough to make that commitment again. I had sworn I'd never get married again, and I'd certainly never have more kids, and be forever tied to another man. I didn't know that men as patient and amazing as my husband even existed.