rjd
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Post by rjd on Jun 26, 2014 15:52:42 GMT
Hello forum,
Just wanted to share my story, I would find this difficult to tell my family and friends. I would welcome any advice.
I've been in my relationship for the last 13 years and married for 10. We have two wonderful your children, two high-profile jobs with decent salaries, a lovely house, positive relationships with wider family. In many ways life is good and we are very lucky. However my wife is sometimes unhappy and has a tendancy to verbally abuse me. She is quite controlling and regularly tries to humiliate and belittle me. She can get very angry if I say or do the wrong thing. This gets worse when she is drunk, and also when my parents visit because she gets jealous of the uncritical attention they give me.
As an example, just last night we went to the pub with my father and uncle, she had too much to drink and became difficult. She does this quite subtly so that it isn't obvious to others but is quite clear to me. I wanted to leave a supportive message on a friends facebook page (the friend is past her due date) but my wife asked me quite forcefully not to, saying it would be a “stupid” comment because she had already texted the same friend earlier that morning. On the way home it became worse, I tried to put my arm around her but she moved away, saying I didn’t deserve it. She called me a dick twice, whilst walking up our drive, loud enough I think for my father and uncle to hear. This was humiliating and I felt hurt. I said I was tired and wanted to go to sleep, but she kept me up, talking aggressively in bed until 12.30am. Her complaint was that I presented myself as being too important and busy, and stressed by work, which gathered too much sympathy and attention from my family. In comparison she felt that she was unfairly ignored and that people did not give her enough attention and sympathy even though her work was as important and stressful as mine. I tried telling her that I loved her (which I do) and that this was her opinion and the truth was different - in reality I think she is at least as important as I am. But she did not accept this and said it was obvious to any objective observer that I had an overexaggerated sense of my own importance, and that I thought I was better than her.
This morning she called me at work and said "sorry about last night." In the past she has admitted drinking too much. I persuaded her to keep a drinking diary, which shows she regularly drinks 30-50 units of alcohol a week. I drink 15-25. She is definitely more abusive when drunk.
It is sad because in many ways she is a wonderful person and mother, we have had many factastic and good times together. She isn't jealous of other women (I don't think), and she doesn't mind me going out with friends every now and then (but not too often). She admitted having a crush on a work colleague some time ago, but nothing happened and she's over it now. She has been diagnosed with mild anxiety and OCD, and took medication for this for several years, but stopped about a year ago. Also her own mother died about 18 months ago and this was very hard for her. I don't want to leave her but I wish she was happier in herself and kinder and more supportive to me.
Anyhow, that's a lot of detail so I'll end here. Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome.
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janine
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Post by janine on Jun 27, 2014 17:51:36 GMT
Hey rij and welcome here!
I would say from the first impression you two could definitely benefit from a good couple's counselor to help you walk this path together with someone by your side who has the best interest of you both at heart.
It is not ok for her to talk to you this way and I would say it is beyond the 'dirty fighting' techniques you learn in counseling you should not use in conflicts with your partner or spouse. Calling you names and controlling how you act and what you say among other people is emotional blackmailing and emotional/verbal abuse. Another possible option COULD be that she is on the narcissistic personality disorder spectrum. But that can ONLY be diagnosed by a professional clinician and even those (and good therapists) often struggle to spot the narcissistic personality. If it is all about her and you have to step back into the shadows so she can have the throne of attention she needs/thinks she deserves, ...that is just not right. And not fun either I bet!
I am not a qualified counselor myself yet, but I would like to point out that by definition of alcohol dependency and alcohol abuse you both are on a dangerous path. 30-50 units per week for a woman is not only "too much" but it brings with it very seriously health issues. 15-25 for a male is also way above the recommended average. Thanks for being so courageous to share those intimate (and often for many people shaming) details. It is SO important to be realistic and honest if you want to heal and improve your life and marriage!
For this a counselor could also be of great help and especially if drinking repeatedly causes issues for her, she could benefit from seeing a substance abuse counselor. It is so easy for many people to brush off alcohol as "ok" or social or "needed for business" but in reality it is pure poison for the human nervous system and over the long term abuse breast cancer, swelling of inner intestines, followed by them hardening, liver cirrhosis, and all sorts of other awful diseases come out of this.
I would say you sound like you really care about your wife, your marriage and your future together. Give yourself credit for that! Reach out to professional help and you will be surprised by how much this can help. (google "warning signs/good signs of therapists before and see if you can get online ratings/check with the board if the counselor you choose has their license still and no complaints filed with the board etc.)
Hoped that helped and hang in there!
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rjd
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Post by rjd on Jul 8, 2014 11:24:56 GMT
Hi Janine1984,
I just wanted to say a belated thank you for your thoughtful and helpful response. We've both started to cut down our alcohol consumption, and I am looking at various counselors.
You run a valuable support with this board, thank you.
rjd
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janine
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Post by janine on Jul 8, 2014 13:57:56 GMT
You are kost welcome rjd and thank you for the kind feedback!
We are here if you feel like wanting to write in a safe place in the future whenever you feel like it might help you- there are also a few other men here who have talked to us about abuse experiences and we value everyone who can benefit from this place!
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rjd
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Post by rjd on Sept 28, 2015 12:11:55 GMT
Hello world,
I wanted to revisit this old thread, as things are happening now and I would appreciate any further thoughts or advice.
I wrote the above posts in June 2014. Since then verbal abuse continued, with hurtful events every few months - I got called some horrible and nasty things.
Eventually we starting couples counselling through relate in April 2015, weekly until now. Through this my wife stated she doesn't feel I support her enough emotionally, she thinks I have a fear of disappointing people and that this in her opinion is the source of our problems. She wants me to work on that, and she is pressuring me to discuss it with family and friends. This makes me very uncomfortable. I talked about the abuse in counselling, saying that it hurts and must stop. I described many events, including some where my wife was screaming and swearing and ranting at me in front of our children. The counsellor didn't really do much or help much, just talking through how it felt at the time and analysing it before moving on. Having said that, I'm not sure what I wanted or expected them to do, especially as I had said I wanted to stay in the relationship.
Now, after a recent event, I am very seriously considering telling my wife that I want to separate. I think this is really what I want, although I have so many emotions and am so confused that I'm not 100% sure. I am concerned about the effects on the children especially, and I know it will hurt my wife too, she will take it very badly on top of the death of her mother 2.5 years ago. It will upset family and friends. Sometimes I feel I 'should' stay with her for these reasons.
Thinking about leaving is scary and, if I do it, I want to do it in the most friendly and positive way possible, with the needs of the children put first. I could use the counselling to discuss this, but the counsellor is on holiday at the moment and my wife can sense something is wrong, I feel something big and painful will happen soon.
I'm not sure why I'm posting this, but it is all I think of at the moment, and any comments would be welcome. I'm going to talk to a friend about it tomorrow but even that will be painful.
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janine
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Post by janine on Sept 28, 2015 17:25:59 GMT
That is a lot to deal with right now, you have my compassion rjd.
First of all- kudos for going to a counselor. That is always a great first step. Not every counselor may be a good fit though, just like in any other professions there are good ones and not so good ones. You could always consider checking out another counselor by yourself for a while to see if that helps. My counselor would label her behavior for example as 'dirty fighting' and he would state very very clearly it is never allowed and should never be just brushed aside.
I see a lot of abusive tactics in your wife's behavior, from stonewalling/silent treatment to directly humiliating you.
If you are not yet sure if you want to leave, that is ok! Right now you are trying to find the right path and neither of them is an easy one. It is very normal to feel hopeless or stuck at times on that road.
I also think the therapist should never encourage that she pressures you into talking to friends and family about what is being discussed in therapy.
Therapy is a private matter and YOU and YOU alone are in charge of what is being shared with the outside world. Your therapist by law is not allowed to talk to others about your case for that very same reason-it is supposed to be that one safe space in your life where you can experience a sense of acceptance, belonging, and compassion.
I am also hearing a lot of codependency- which is just a sign that you are a very kind and compassionate man, please give yourself credit for that.
You care about your family and you care about your wife.
But I wonder..what about you?
Your needs? Your rights? Your safety, sense of belonging, acceptance, integrity?
You were born with these rights and just because she signed a piece of paper and gave birth to two children does not give her the right to abuse you and belittle you.
In fact, if the kids witness her behavior this is just as damaging - if not worse- for them. Since I am not a professional and do not know your wife, I cannot say if maybe she has an untreated trauma herself or another mental illness that might make her more unpredictable. She is also abusing alcohol and that is often a sign for a co-morbidity - meaning two issues are present at the same time. When someone for example suffers from a not yet diagnosed depression and drinks to cope, we talk about co-morbid.
Bottom line is always- if it does not feel right it is not right.
There are no excuses for her behavior and it is wrong.
She continues to blame-shift- telling you that you are the main problem. This is what abusers do. You suddenly find yourself in a place where all of those self-fulfilling prophecies of hers may come true. If she abuses you you will feel like you disappoint her and are not good enough-ever. Then she blames you for feeling that way and the cycle never ends.
If she is so unhappy with you and thinks it is ok to insult her own husband and father of her kids, why is she still with you?
Wouldn't it be a relief for her if you were gone?
Abusers do not want to live in a healthy and calm relationships- they want to control and be in charge and abuse their power. That's why.
If she has your best interest at heart and you tell her clearly:
When you do this...I am feeling this....
And she keeps doing it you can calmly state next time:
I explained to you that when you do this I am feeling hurt. Can you help me understand why you CHOOSE to still behave this way if you are aware of how it makes me feel? Why are you intentionally hurting me?
Hope that helped...
Time is a good friend. You either grow tired of the evolving abuse in a relationship or find a way as a couple to make it work if she is really NOT abusive.
Either way you will find out and it WILL be ok. It will be difficult and it will suck, but there is an end to it and life on the other side is good.
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rjd
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Post by rjd on Oct 15, 2015 9:29:50 GMT
Janine,
Thank you so much for your considered and thorough reply, your thoughts are really valuable and appreciated.
I saw a solicitor a week ago, just to get more informed about the practicalities of divorce should it happen.
Then, two nights ago, we had an argument where she ended up blocking my way so I couldn't go through a corridor in our house, grabbing my wrist and pulling me a few times, and finally pushing me backwards. It was not with much force, I don't think she intended to hurt me physically, but I stumbled backwards and almost tripped.
This has shocked me a bit, I can't recall her ever using physical force in an argument before (except once 12 years ago). Worse, when I later challenged her she tried to say _I_ had pushed _her_ as well, "two can play that game" and she asked me to forget it.
That night we slept badly and she woke me at 5am to talk. I said I need her to take responsibility for the abuse. She said she did, and apologised for the hurt. I know this is classic 'cycle of abuse' stuff, I fear she was feeling guilty and perhaps is not really sorry. We will likely have a calm period now until the next time, I'm alert for that.
It is so odd to see this happening - my wife is a popular, highly successful, confident, thoughtful and kind woman in many ways. I still don't know if I want to, or have the confidence to, leave. I do know I'm feeling down, and I'm glad to be able to talk to friends and family about it.
We have the final session with our couples counsellor coming up, and I intend to discuss this during the session. I'm not sure how the counsellor will react.
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janine
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Post by janine on Oct 15, 2015 19:35:01 GMT
And that is ok! You do not have to know right now, or tomorrow, or next week.
For now maybe the fact that you are reflecting on her behavior is all you feel good about doing. Your needs matter and your well-being matter.
Of the counsellor is a good one he/she should mention terms such as 'dirty fighting' and that physical violence is never ok. There is no excuse or minimizing that she grabbed your wrists and pulled/pushed you.
I think a lot of people struggle with the fact that the abusive partner can be so charming and nice to people outside of their home. It is almost as if there are two souls living inside of them, only thing to remember is they CHOOSE when to be on good behavior and when to show who they truly are and how they truly feel about you.
Let us know how things progressed past the final counselling appointment if you feel like it. Now might also be a good time to continue counselling by yourself.
I found that having just a few sessions by myself with a good therapist can be such a lifeline, whether or not the partner is abusive or not doesn't even matter. It just helps to experience a good therapist who knows what questions to ask and how to help you help yourself.
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Post by Will B Fine on Nov 8, 2015 0:21:42 GMT
RJD
You sound like I did a couple of years ago. I am nearing the later stages of divorce now. Let me offer this in case it helps.
It won't get better, it will only get worse. Read your thread over the last year ... it is spiralling.
Start to keep a diary of everything. Record what happens, and what is said. I did this and was shocked by the appealing casual, DAILY abusive comments she made.
Google "verbal and emotional abuse" and see how many other men are in exactly the same position.
Your wife is not loving, charming and so on. They are things she does when she needs to. If she was those things then you would have the same treatment. Deep down, you know this.
When you look at all the sites on this subject, notice how many are from older men wishing they had done something about it sooner. I am in my forties, I was with her over 20 years, I knew years ago that she was not treating me well but .. I made all the same rationalisations you do.
I am now with a wonderful woman who never reacts in the ways she used to. I wish I had left years ago, but now my life is nearly always more relaxed, happy and loving than ever before.
WBF
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rjd
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Post by rjd on Nov 11, 2015 12:38:05 GMT
Thank you WBF for taking time to reply and offer your thoughts, I appreciate this.
Everything seems so tricky, I am an indecisive person at the best of times. I know her actions and words often leave me feeling down, but sometimes I wonder if I'm being unreasonable or overreacting.
She has recently been to the GP and was prescribed an antidepressant/antianxiety medication which she has started taking. She says this ties in with a change in the way she views the relationship over the last few weeks. This refers to the level of emotional support that she needs and feels she isn't getting from me. She says she is now going to give me some space and try to help herself more and get more support from her friends (and she thinks the medication will help). She says she still hopes I will be able to give the support she needs at some future point. I think I am already a good supportive husband and I don't know what more I can do.
I don't think the couples counselling really helped much (even after 20 sessions at £50 per session). In our last session I brought up the argument where she pushed me then tried to distort what happened afterwards. The counsellor just didn't pick up on this or say anything helpful.
I am however keeping up with a (different) individual counsellor who I feel is helping me.
The relationship is far from good, but leaving her is such a frightening thing to contemplate. It would cause pain to our young children and be hugely disruptive. Not to mention finances. I really do not know what is the best course of action - if I decide to leave will I then regret it later? It feels like no option is a good option. I am worried I will just end up muddling on and hoping for the best, which sounds terrible as well as I'll still be unhappy.
So I just don't know what to do. How can I make up my mind? How can I choose the right way? How do I know what I really want?
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janine
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Post by janine on Dec 16, 2015 15:07:33 GMT
Hi Rjd,
I hope all is well!
Those are some very good questions and I fear the answers are not black and white or easy...but then you knew that already.
You mentioned that you are seeing an individual counselor which sounded like a good idea. How has that been going?
If you feel unsatisfied with your therapist you can always give yourself permission to find a better fit as well.
You can google 'red flag of a bad therapist' for example, one of them is - like the other counselor--the couples counselor-- you mentioned' not intervening enough.
It sounds like your individual counselor is maybe a better fit for you right now.
I think it is admirable that you are so proactive about getting therapy and working on the relationship.
It is ok to 'sit with it' and not have all the answers right now. They will come to you in time.
Be kind and self-compassionate and patient with yourself. You deserve that.
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rjd
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Post by rjd on Dec 16, 2015 15:31:46 GMT
Hi janine and thank you for the message.
My own individual counselling is going well, I think, and the counsellor is very supportive.
I still feel pretty horrible and stressed and panicky about everything.
I now feel very close to choosing to separate from my wife, but will wait until after Christmas.
I need to figure out how to manage the separation well, putting the needs of the kids first, and minimising the chances of conflict and resistance from my wife. She is likely to take this very badly.
Thanks for your continued support.
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janine
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Post by janine on Dec 16, 2015 17:23:35 GMT
You have my sincere compassion.
That panic can be gut wrenching and it puts your entire body into that flight-or-fight mode.
I remember feeling very very tense for a long time, always anxious, expecting the worst and as if I was about to have a heart attack (at age 24) any moment from that stress.
We are here if you need an ear and an anonymous and safe place to turn to.
Please make sure to use a safe computer and delete your browser history if you share the device with your wife.
I like the idea of letting the holidays pass first since this time often intensifies anyone's emotions and feelings. There is just something about the holidays that makes a ton of people 'different' for a few days. Come January 3rd we will turn out attention towards the new year and forget all about the 'merry' December times.
You are smart, you have created access to a professional mental health provider, and you are putting your children's needs already first.
Way to go!!!!
And today you don't have to decide or do anything.
Give yourself permission to sit with the unknown and to embrace that it is really uncomfortable to not have all the answers and carry all those 'what if's?'
It will be ok.
Maybe not right now, but eventually.
Deep breaths, lots of water and as much sleep as you can get. Try to have an hour exercise a day and if possible stay away from alcohol during the next couple of months.
I didn't do any of the above and I understand in hindsight it slowed down my healing process when I was about to leave my ex instead of helping me.
Being kind to yourself is not selfish, it is what the universe (and your God if that applies) expect of you.
I am glad to have you here with us!
You deserve to be happy and safe. In fact, those are some very very basic human needs we all have and we all deserve that these needs are met.
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