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Post by Gwen on Dec 27, 2018 7:14:20 GMT
I am sure culture has something to do with it but it seems as a whole that people believe it's not their business to interfere when they see something going on that isn't right. My husband for going on 4 years, is a Muslim from Bosnia. His parents were not happy at first with him marrying this Irish Catholic girl but we get along well now. Though they'd like for me to convert, they know and accept that I won't. We visit and have dinner with them every weekend. They have always treated me with kindness. Last year, my brother-in-law and his wife left Bosnia and moved to the States. She is in her late 20's and he in his mid-30's and they have been married since she was 18. I don't know what I expected when they came here--I suppose I thought they would be as warm and inviting as the rest of my in-laws have been. At first, my brother-in-law seemed to be, but his wife was very reserved, never smiled, and when she did speak to me, it was to scoff at my western way of life, the way I dressed, the way I talked. My brother-in-law at first took her aside and we could hear him speaking to her harshly, and she came back out with her head and eyes down and she apologized. My in-laws told me that was just the way she was and not to take it personally. Things were better for a while after that. She opened up a little and we were able to get to know each other, however I could see that she was very cautious about what she shared and she would become very quiet again when her husband was around. He seemed a little more friendly, outwardly, but not towards here. I could see him giving her looks of disapproval, glaring at her. Sometimes he would cock his head to one side, directing her to come with him and they'd go off in another room. I could here him talking and sometimes I thought I heard her crying, and she'd often come back out with red eyes and she wouldn't look at anyone. When we were alone I would ask her if she was okay and try to encourage her to tell me what happened but she wouldn't. If I was given any response, it would most often be that she just should listen to her husband more. It occurred to me after a few of these incidences that no one else in the family would do what I did. No one ever checked in with her, asked her if she was alright, not even my husband. I questioned him about it and he said it isn't our place to get involved. Things seemed to escalate from there, more incidences of him taking her in to the bedroom, more tears, more apathy from his family. A week ago I watched him point her towards the bedroom again, she went ahead of him and he went behind her, carrying a small wooden dowel. More harsh words, more crying, only her cries were different, louder and she was pleading with him in Bosnian. My in-laws and my husband were there, hearing what I was hearing and no one moved, or so much as acknowledged what was happening. I begged my husband to do something, please. He looked towards his father and his father nodded and said, "That's enough." So my husband went in. By then it was over, though, and he and his brother and brother's wife came out together. My husband came to me and stood next to me, while my brother-in-law and his wife went upstairs. I took my husband aside later and asked him why he didn't intervene right away and why I had to tell him to. He told me that we were in his father's house, and his father doesn't believe it's our business to intervene unless someone is in serious danger. When he said, "That's enough", that meant that my brother-in-law had crossed the line, and it was okay then to put a stop to it. My husband said if it was in our house, he would have gone in immediately and thrown his brother out into the street. But his father's house, his father's rules. He promises me that his parents don't believe it is right for a man to hit his wife and his father has never laid a hand on his mother, but they still believe it isn't their business, at least up to a certain point. I'd still like to know what my father-in-law's definition of serious danger is, but I didn't ask. I haven't been back to his house since. I just can't bring myself to do it. I haven't said this to my husband, but I lost respect for him--my husband--that day, and I don't know if I can ever look at him the same. He's been nothing but wonderful and gentle, and amazing to me, and I've been so happy with him. We're expecting our first child this summer. I don't know where to go from here. Part of me wants to take my sister-in-law away somewhere and tell her she doesn't have to live this way, that in this country, she has rights and what he did to her is illegal. But then, I'm not sure if that's the right thing. I realize she may not even listen, she may react with anger, it may drive her closer to him. I don't want to lose my husband, or to break up our family, either. I realize also, that that may make me sound like a hypocrite, being angry with my in-laws for not intervening, when I'm afraid to intervene myself. I tell myself it's his family, it's their place.
I feel as if I have to do something, however, I'm not sure where to start.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on Dec 29, 2018 2:46:53 GMT
Hi Gwen, welcome here and thank you for sharing your story. You came to the right place for support and information. I have been where you are in a similar situation and it is heartwrenching to hear someone being abused and feeling paralyzed to help out.
First thing, I truly believe that your sister-in-law is in an abusive relationship from what you are describing. Her husband probably hit her with that dowel or at least threatened her with it if she didn't do what he demanded. It is getting worse as most abusers do get worse over time. Especially when they start to believe that their victim (partner) is pulling away or not being submissive.
For me, I was visiting my partner's sister and her husband 2 years ago. I could sense a "vibe" between them the whole time we were visiting them (we stayed with them a week). I couldn't put my finger on it, but I suspected it may have been the sister's idea for us to visit, not her husband's, and I suspect he was not in agreement with us visiting. My boyfriend at that time (he no longer is in my life) and I are both extremely knowledgeable about DV as I have experienced it, he was abused as a child and still is by his mother, and I believe he is borderline abusive. As the week went on, a few weird things happened and by the end of the week, we had offered to give his sister a night out with her husband and we watched their children. They came home from the date night and they had apparently had a disagreement in the car. Things progressed and the husband got annoyed and stomped upstairs. The sister went up to console him and we didn't hear any yelling, but shortly after they went up, we heard 3-4 "thuds". I believe he hit her or knocked her down. It took a very long time for them to come back downstairs. Her eyes were very red from crying and he acted like nothing had happened, and I mean he tried really hard to appear "normal". It was really awful because I have been abused and I know what those sounds meant. I later confronted her and she said "I know this is what battered women say, but I slipped on the wet floor in the bathroom, really". No she didn't. None of it made sense..they took showers 4 hours before and most people don't just slip on the floor. There was some yelling as well. It just didn't make sense.
I looked at my boyfriend and told him something had to be done. Fortunately, he got it and told me he would call 911 if he had too..he had been considering it. The little kids were there and heard everything, they were scared, quiet and honestly it looked like they had done this before.(coping). We later texted with his sister, to this day she continues to post a "happy family" on social media and tries really hard to convince us that everything is fine. She said "He has anger issues". Well fun fact...any one with "anger issues"..is an ABUSER. I tried to tell her this, she doesn't believe me. She just needs to be a better wife, a better Mom, and "I can talk him down a lot". All excuses to cover the abuse he puts out there.
I imagine it was incredibly scary for you, and hard to resist intervening. AND..I do believe that what you witnessed is cultural as well as very possibly abuse. I can see how it has impacted how you see your partner. I can relate to this as every time I encounter an abuser..I am compelled to try and save the victim. To the point where I get myself upset. It is clearly wrong what these men (usually) do to their partners who they claim "to love". LOVE and ABUSE do not go together. LOVE IS NOT ABUSE.
It seems to me that you are walking a fine line right now trying not to upset your relationship, but trying to get your partner to understand what is going on. You are not a hypocrite. AND being afraid to intervene is very understandable. Please don't beat yourself up for not doing anything. Intervening puts you at risk, you could have been hurt.
A few things you can do...perhaps find a time when you can tell your sister-in-law that you are there for her if she ever wants to talk. That you won't judge her, you won't tell her what to do, you will listen and just let her know that you understand. Don't encourage her to leave. You may want to say "I know this is hard, but you don't have to live your life this way". You can give her the National Domestic Violence Hotline phone number. She can call anytime and remain anonymous. I suspect she won't do this as she has been conditioned not to speak of things that go on in her marriage. AND I suspect what you are not seeing is way worse than what you are seeing.
You can educate yourself more by reading "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft. He is an expert on all things abusive. I have read this book several times. You can get it on Amazon.com or in your local library. Please do not tell your sister-in-law what to do, and please don't encourage her to leave. One thing that people who are in abusive relationships don't understand is why someone stays. She is attached by trauma to her husband. He has probably threatened her that if she ever got an idea to leave, he would find her and make her life miserable. She also probably loves him, and she probably has no access to their finances. She is dependent on him. Your sister-in-law needs to know that you are SAFE for her to confide in. She really has no one, she has been conditioned to not trust you..I wouldn't be surprised if your brother-in-law has told her that your "American ways" makes you a bad wife. She didn't come up with this on her own. She is probably "just like that" because she is being abused and she is finding a way to cope so she doesn't get the hell beat out of her.
If you pray..then pray for her. You can set boundaries for you and your home. If they are in your house, you have rules about him yelling. You set limits.
Also, I can tell you love your husband and he sounds like a good guy, but I am concerned about what he believes about women. Does he believe that it is ok to treat a partner the way his brother treats his wife? Does he really believe that it is not his place to stand up for someone who is being hurt? By not saying something, he is agreeing with the behaviors of his brother. Even though his father has not hit his mother, that doesn't mean he hasn't abused her. And please know, I am not saying he is abusive.BUT he believes it is HIS home and HIS rules and his wife is submissive to that. A healthy relationship..there is equality. Not one having more power and control over the other.
I lived with my now ex-husband for 26 years..I never thought he was abusive until I decided to leave. I saw things in him I had never imagined and it all came about because I changed the "status quo" of our relationship. He had been abusing me our whole marriage. I lived with it, it was what I had been taught to do my whole life, commit and not quit..make it work. I told myself "oh, that is just the way he is and either I accept it, or I leave". I didn't want to leave, until things got worse and I couldn't agree with his behaviors any longer. I changed. Me not going along with all the things I had gone along with before, made the abuse come out much more. I started to pull away, and the abuse became more obvious. I loved my husband, I was 1000% committed to my husband, my children, our life, and most importantly my marriage. Divorce wasn't an option, until I realized the person I was living with was a Narcissist and abusive.
Also, the most important thing is she stay safe. She is finding a way to live with her situation. I wouldn't be surprised if she is miserable, alone, scared, and trapped. Your inlaws..they blame her for the way "she is". She is that way because she is probably being abused. It is not her fault. You can help her to see that...it is not her fault. She isn't causing him to abuse her. HE is the problem. She doesn't deserve how he treats her.
Your gut is telling you this isn't right. You also can call the National Hotline and talk to a counselor. You may have been traumatized by what you witnessed. Talking to a counselor may help you process all this too. The number is 1-800-799-7233.
Please keep posting, I am here to help and support you if I can. You are a great sister to her by wanting to help. When she is ready, if she ever becomes ready, be there for her. That alone is huge. Knowing you will keep her confidences, that speaks volumes to her. If you do nothing else, let her know you will be there for her no matter what she decides to do. Also, I wouldn't text or e-mail her, her husband may monitor these things.
Be safe yourself Karen
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Post by Gwen on Dec 30, 2018 6:57:08 GMT
Hello, Karen. Thank you for replying to my post. I found out that my father-in-law argued with my brother-in-law after we left, although apparently, only to tell him that hitting his wife with the dowel, or threatening to, was wrong and goes against the Qur'an. He denied actually striking her with it. My father-in-law, to my knowledge, didn't address the verbal abuse that has been going on since they moved here. And I'm sure before they moved here. My husband most definitely doesn't think it's okay for his brother to treat his wife this way, and he says he would have intervened sooner, but the way he was brought up in Bosnia, and in his religion, he must obey his parents, at least while in their home. It's the same with my mother-in-law. In Islam, like in certain sects of Christianity, wives are taught to be submissive to their husbands. Not that I have ever seen my father-in-law order my mother-in-law around, or behave in a controlling manner towards her. I have seen them argue, albeit not over anything serious, and it most always ends up going her way. My husband has told me that his father worships his mother and I can see that he adores her, so I don't believe he is abusive. But at the end of the day, she does believe he is the head of the household. My husband no longer believes that way, but the rest of his family does. He also has a married sister still in Bosnia.
My husband and I talked more about this last night. He told me he was sorry that he didn't intervene as soon as we heard her cry out and that I shouldn't have had to tell him to. He said his upbringing is hard to shake. Even if he felt it was the right thing, to go against his father would be considered an act of disrespect. He has told me that when his brother and sister-in-law visit here in a few days, he will talk to his brother. I am going to see if my sister-in-law and I can get out of the house together so I can talk to her. My husband told me it should be okay but he said that she probably won't tell me anything. It's like you said before, she's been taught not to talk about it. I'm just a bit afraid of my brother-in-law somehow finding out what we've talked about and taking it out on her.
I do think you are right about my sister-in-law's attitude toward me. I have heard my brother-in-law tell my husband that he is becoming too westernized and allowing me to lead him away from his heritage. He accuses my husband of forgetting where he came from. I think he is worried that his wife may begin to pick up on my western ways and that's why they've both been a bit standoffish towards me. My husband and his brother argued a few weeks ago when my brother-in-law found out from my in-laws that if our baby is a boy, we will not circumcise him. He told my husband that if we have a son, he must be raised Muslim. The fact is, we decided that boy or girl, we will introduce our child to both religions and let them decide when they are old enough. Neither of us are fundamentalist in our beliefs, which is another issue for another day.
So I will let her know that I am here for her and that I will keep anything she tells me in confidence but unfortunately I don't hold out much hope. I suspect it would be more effective coming from a fellow Muslim. You are right; this is hard, but I will do what I can.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on Dec 31, 2018 3:53:48 GMT
Hi Gwen, you are welcome and I am glad your marriage sounds really healthy and happy. I am sure your husband's upbringing is difficult to shake and respecting his parents in their home is very understandable. It sounds like your in-laws' marriage is a strong one as well. As an American woman, I struggle with seeing my husband or partner as "head of the household". I was submissive for a very long time in my marriage, partly why I am no longer married. I just see marriage as a partnership, not one person over another.
I also find it very interesting that most men (this is a generalization) see hitting as really wrong and a horrible way to treat someone, yet verbally abusing them is less wrong. Verbal abuse does a lot of damage and causes a lot of trauma. It is also very hard for the victim to be believed when there are no "marks" to show for it.
I would struggle with your brother-in-law. I am not a fan of anyone telling me how to live my life or how to raise my children. If someone wants me to respect how they live their life and raise their family? Then they have to do that for me in return. That road goes both ways. Talking to your sister-in-law would be great. I guess, try and let her share what she wants. You may just have to let her know you are there for her, no matter what. If possible, perhaps don't focus on the religion? Just girl to girl..not Christian to Muslim. I know there are guidelines and limits and such placed in religions and that is very important. Abuse crosses all religions, all races, all walks of life. But bottom line, it is all just about men and women.
Is it ok in the Muslim religion for a man to abuse his wife emotionally? I am not trying to be funny, I just don't know about that particular religion. For me, I can't believe in a God of any kind where hurting someone on purpose and destroying them emotionally is OK.
Your sister-in-law is really blessed to have you in her life. You are doing all you can for the time being.
Listen to your inner voice, it will tell you when something isn't right. Don't let your brother-in-law dictate how you and your husband live your lives.
Best wishes! Karen
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