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Post by Katy on May 9, 2018 3:47:49 GMT
Hi,
I hope you don't mind me asking this here. It's kind of crazy situation. My friend and are both college students, and she's been seeing her boyfriend for about 9 months. I've noticed in the last 5-6 months her becoming more withdrawn and quiet, and she was not a quiet person before. The only time I see the old her is sadly when she's had a lot to drink and her inhibitions are lower. I think she feels it too because I've noticed she drinks a lot more than she did before. I have overheard a couple of conversations on the phone between them where I could hear him yelling/raising his voice and they left her pretty upset. I heard him tell her to "stop acting like a bitch" once too. I've talked with her about it and she's told me (and swore me to secrecy) that things aren't going that great and "he gets mean sometimes" but she loves him and he's really trying to do better (her words). She said he's never raised a hand to her and if he did, she'd leave him. I've told her life is too short to put up with it and she says I don't understand, which I'll admit, I don't because I haven't been there. But I want to. I want to understand at least as much as I can so that I be here for her the best way I can.
Something happened over the weekend that makes me suspect that more is going on than what she is telling me. We were together with a bunch of friends at one of their houses and we were all drinking. We weren't drunk but we were all pretty tipsy. They had a cornhole game board and someone suggested we have a little tournament. At first everyone said the losers in each round had to take a shot, but then someone came out with a frat paddle and said they had a better idea. I didn't want to do it and my friend didn't either but she said she didn't want to kill the mood of the party. So I said I'd do it too. It was so stupid, I should have just taken her and walked away. She lost in the second round. She put on a brave face but I could tell she was nervous, so I told the girl that was going to swat her to go easy on her. Which she did, sort of, but it had to hurt anyway, and my friend she acted like she was fine after but she looked pale and almost in shock to me. It's hard to describe I guess. She excused herself right after and went to the bathroom. I found her in there completely melting down. We left and I took her home but she didn't want to talk about it. We've talked twice since and she didn't bring it up so I didn't either, other than asking her if she was okay the day after, because I didn't want to to push her.
I don't know what to think. I know her background. We've been friends since the 3rd grade. She was definitely not abused as a child. Her parents didn't even spank her. So that's why I'm thinking maybe it has become physical with her boyfriend and she's just afraid to tell me.
Am I reading too much into this? And whether I am or not, I'd still like to help her with whatever she is going through so any advice you can give me would be really appreciated. I don't want to bring up domestic violence right off because I'm not sure that she believes that's what it is. But I'm not sure how to approach it. I'm really worried for her.
Thank you in advance.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 10, 2018 1:53:34 GMT
Hi Katy, you sound like a great friend to me and your friend is very lucky to have someone like you who cares enough to question what is going on! I believe you came to the right place to find support and perhaps some answers. AND NO..you are not reading too much into this. In fact, you are probably worried for a really good reason. You being concerned, may save your friends' life.
From what you are describing, I suspect that your friends' partner is very possibly abusing her. There are several things that you describe that are making me think so. There are many things in relationships that are "normal" as far as disagreements and such. BUT it is very obvious to me that this could be beyond "normal" and very much heading in the direction of abuse.
He is telling her on the phone how to act. She has a right to feel how she feels and act how she wants. He uses the word "bitch". If someone claims to love you..do they refer to you as a "bitch"? No. AND I bet you he will say "I didn't call you one, I just said you were acting like one". Still very hurtful either way.
SHe is drinking more..it numbs the pain of whatever she is feeling (perhaps). The fact that you are osberving her doing this more, tells me something in her life has changed and she feels the need to not "hurt". Your "GUT" is telling you something isn't right and I believe you are right in your suspicion.
"She says things aren't that great and he is mean sometimes". BIG RED FLAG! When women are not sure if they are being abused, they can refer to their partner as being "mean sometimes". He is doing things and saying things that are hurtful to her and I suspect he is confusing her by saying he loves her and cares and if she just wouldn't act like a "bitch" then he wouldn't be mean. The fact that he is "trying to be better"..also tells me he is probably abusing her emotionally.
The whole episode at that party you both went, obviously triggered something in her. I suspect she may have experienced some sort of trauma in her life and this whole thing did not sit well with her. The "shock" is her body reacting to trauma. Something is making her feel the way she feels. Even if she wasn't hit, the very threat of it happening was enough to throw her body into a traumatic/panic situation. Something has traumatized her. She probably is too scared to trust someone to talk about it. He very well may have hit her or at least threatened her.
You know her best, just a thought, she didn't have to be spanked to have experienced some abusive tactics as a child or teen. Emotional abuse can be extremely detrimental to our well-being and it can be very subtle. I was never spanked, but I was raised by two very controlling parents. I have never been able to do anything that has been "good enough" for them. Those feelings and many others carried over into my relationships with men,starting with a college sweetheart. I am now 50+ and have been in 2 more abusive relationships since then, both worse than the previous.
Something is not healthy in this relationship she is in and I suspect she does not know how to get out of it or even go to anyone for support. There are a lot of resources out there that can help to figure out if it is abuse. Lundy Bancroft wrote a great book called "Why Does He Do That?" It is about angry and controlling men. GREAT RESOURCE! I read this book and I couldn't get through it as I swear my ex-husband and 2 ex boyfriends could have had their picture in the book. I was in there too. It shocked the heck out of me. Lundy Bancroft also wrote "Should I Stay or Should I Go". A great book about how to make that decision. The ONE LOVE Foundation...great resource for trying to see what behaviors in a relationship are unhealthy.
If you can get your friend to talk more to you, please help her to know that she does not have to live like this. She does not have to stay with someone who emotionally hurts her. She deserves to be loved and cherished and this guy does not do that. AND I suspect he has an excuse for everything and he blames her in some way for whatever happens in their relationship. He then mixes in some really AWESOME times, tells her he loves her, shares great memories, then later he does something to hurt or control her. Help her to know that she did not cause him to treat her this way, she does not deserve this in any way! He more than likely has abused someone else before her.
I promise you, whatever is going on, it will get worse. He is not going to change, he believes that he has every right to do what he is doing and she CANNOT love him enough to make him a better person. She can read this forum, she can ask questions. She can call a National Domestic Violence Hotline and speak to a counselor anonymously.
No one wants to believe they are being abused. I am a professional healthcare worker, I have a master's degree, a full time job, and I realized after a 26 year marriage that I was being abused by my husband (now my ex husband), I learned that my college sweetheart who teased me to no end and one day chased me from his dorm room into mine and pinned me between the wall and the door and grabbed me by my face "was only playing around" (no he wasn't) and the boyfriend I found online who lied to me, accused me of everything disgusting under the sun and kicked me out of his house all were abusers and still are.
I learned that 1 in 3 women experience some form of domestic violence. I was shocked when I had dinner with 5 of my friends from high school and 3 of us had been abused or threatened or physically beaten by a man in what we believed were "loving " relationships.
Anything I can do to help, please let me know. She can post here anytime and remain anonymous. Many here don't use their real names. It is safe here, there is no judgement, no one to say "i told you so". There is so much help out there, and I know she probably feels ashamed and guilty and she blames herself, she is not the problem. HE IS. AND HE WILL CONTINUE TO BE.
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Post by Katy on May 11, 2018 2:13:17 GMT
Hey Karen,
Thank you for your response and the book and website recommendations. I looked at the One Love foundation and I think she might be willing to look at it at least. I talked with her again today. We went for coffee after class. It went okay, I think. I thought I'd share and maybe you can let me know if there's anything I could have said, or said different, or not said, or just what you think about what she told me.
She actually did open up a little, though not about what happened at the party but what happened after. I just told her how worried I am about her, especially after what happened there. I told her I wondered what was behind it and that she could tell me anything. She said she knows she can but it's too embarrassing. She said she felt like an idiot. I told her it wasn't her fault but she just wasn't ready to talk about it. So I asked her how things are going with her boyfriend. At first she said "okay". And then she started tearing up a little and told me that something happened the night of the party. He came over after I took her home, and he went off on her for having too much to drink. He said he could smell it on her breath and asked her why she has to go out and embarrass herself like that. He told her his mother is an alcoholic and he'll be damned if he's going to have an alcoholic girlfriend. The he went around and poured out all of her alcohol in the apartment and smashed one in the sink and left it for her to clean up. After all that she says she knows it's just because he cares about her and he's worried about her, and she knows she drinks too much. I told her that being worried about her doesn't make it okay for anyone to yell at her, put her down, call her names or destroy her property. I told her she deserves better. I told her that I've seen a change in her and I miss my happy and carefree friend. She didn't say anything, and I told her she didn't have to, but I'm here to listen whenever she's ready to talk. She said thank you and then said she had to go because he was waiting for her. I told her to take care of herself, and that was it.
I don't know if I did it right. I tried to follow your advice but I feel like I was mostly winging it. It surprised me how hard it was to have that conversation. I was literally shaking the whole time. I know that sometimes women in abusive relationships will want to defend their partners so I was kind of bracing myself for her to jump down my throat but she didn't so I guess I could have done worse. I just hope she'll keep opening up to me and that she'll see him for what he is one day.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 11, 2018 12:31:25 GMT
Hi Katy,
SO glad you got to talk to your friend. I think you did great in helping her to share what is going on in her relationship. I am sure she was embarrassed about the party. That whole situation sounds horrible. You gave her the opportunity to share and that is what she needed. You opened a door, you made it safe for her to share and she needs this. She sounds scared to me, she sounds like he is nasty to her and emotionally moving towards abusing her if he isn't already.
A few things she said to you concern me: "He poured out all the bottles, her alcohol, and smashed one in the sink and left it for her to clean up". This is a sure sign that this guy has the potential to be violent. VIOLENT. He could very easily hit her. Shove her, pull her hair, pin her against the wall, anything. It is a sign of him becoming violent. He has a temper. ANGER issues usually ==ABUSIVE. His true colors are coming out.
"He'll be damned if any girlfriend of his will become an alcoholic". Really?? This isn't about him worrying about her, or loving her, or caring for her. THIS is about HIM. THIS IS about him worrying about how he will have to deal with something. Is she becoming an alcoholic? Very possible. BUT that is her problem, she will have to deal with that. HE is making this about him. He is also yelling at her and instead of being supportive, he is contributing to her low self esteem, her belief that "yes she is an embarrassment, the party proved it and now he is proving it by telling her that". He isn't loving her at all. He isn't worried about her. THIS is all ABOUT HIM. If he isn't abusing her..and I suspect he is, he is heading in that direction. My ex-boyfriend literally almost said the exact same words to me. I didn't drink, you could substitute the alcohol for teenagers who get pregnant or elderly parents..I said I would take care of my kids if that ever happened to them he said he would kick them out and they would not get a dime from him or us. AND no way would he have a girlfriend who wanted to have her elderly parents live with us. He had me in tears and scared to death I would lose him so I agreed to abandon my parents and my kids if they ever needed me to please him. It wasn't alcohol, but it was all about him. AND him wanting to control me. He gave me conditions to be with him, it didn't matter what I wanted. He did this many many times during out relationship. I hate him. He is history.
I think you did everything right, you are being a great friend. These conversations are very tough to have. I am not surprised you were shaking, it is scary to talk about. She believes he is just worried about her. She didn't jump down your throat because I believe she knows you are right to be concerned. She is learning that talking to you is "safe". I hope she keeps opening up to you too.
What you can do, is be vigilant in case she shares something that could open up a conversation with you. Maybe, find things to do that don't include alcohol. Watch for signs of bruising, or flinching, or startling easy. Your gut will alert you when you think something isn't right. Don't give up on her. She may be "up and down" about her thoughts and feelings. Let her know that there is help out there and no one will judge her. Calling a hotline and talking to a counselor is a really good option as she can remain anonymous. If there is help on your campus, suggest that. You didn't push her, and that is such a good thing. You don't want her to feel trapped between you and her boyfriend.
You are a great friend Katy, she needs you. We are here to help, anytime.
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Post by Katy on May 11, 2018 16:21:34 GMT
Hey Karen,
Just real quick, what you said about her flinching and srartling easily, I've seen that already. I mean she's always been kind of high-strung. I don't know if that's the right word. Her mom called it "nervous energy". She's one of those skinny, can't sit still types. And she's always startled a *little* easy. But I have noticed it's gotten worse since she's been with him. I've said something to her about it, without mentioning him and she said it's just last-semester stress (we're graduating this month). But I'm not so sure.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 11, 2018 22:04:14 GMT
Hi Katy, startling and flinching is a sign of anxiety. High strung is also part of anxiety. It can be related to stress, but I think startling easy can be related to anticipating something happening or a reaction to a stress that we think will happen. It could be related to end of the semester. I would think it was that if she didn't have a boyfriend who wasn't treating her decently. If he was loving and supportive in a way that made her feel safe and secure, then I would say, sure it could be related to school ending.
Being anxious since she was little, that could be related as well. Anxiety is usually learned and perhaps her parents were or someone she knew growing up were also. It can be hereditary too. Her parents may not have helped her either as a young child. Parents who don't always understand anxiety can make it worse by pointing it out all the time, making her feel bad about mistakes or a variety of ways that caused it to get worse. Her self esteem is probably pretty low also. People with "nervous energy" can also be on edge, meaning she is always wondering if she is going to do something wrong, or embarrass herself, or say something wrong. She is probably walking on "eggshells" around her boyfriend. Whatever he is, abusive or not, he is contributing to her anxiety. He isn't helping her. Instead of helping he is hurting.
I really think this guy is unhealthy. Keep being the good friend you are, she needs you.
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Post by Katy on May 12, 2018 2:16:57 GMT
Hi Karen,
I definitely think it's at least partly genetic in her case. Her mom was telling her all the time:
Calm down Stop fidgeting! Why can't you relax?
Only her mom was and is just like her! It was something that became a running joke in her family as we got older. Her dad and her sister: totally the opposite. So I get that. I also get that he's not helping. When she's anxious she needs someone who can provide a calming influence, not someone who contributes to it and I know he does. I can see it when he shouts at her over the phone. She'll tell him "Just stop yelling at me" and he yells louder. One time she was crying and upset because he'd been yelling at her, and he actually told her in a loud voice to "calm the f*ck down!" Because that's helpful (sarcasm). He just doesn't get it.
She told me something else today. First she asked if we could go out this weekend, just us. So I'm hoping maybe she's going to open up a little more. But what she told me after that was that she had to get out and do something, that she can't just sit at home because he'll show up and want to spend the entire weekend, and her words: "He always finds something to get on me about." I told her, that's not good. And she said, "I know." And then she went off to meet up with him again. But I am picking her up in the morning to go have breakfast and then we're going an a little hike. Something that doesn't involve drinking, like you said.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 12, 2018 3:22:36 GMT
Hello again, she is slowly revealing her relationship to you, that is so good! He is abusive, the fact that he is always on her says a lot. He yells, she cries, she knows this is not healthy. She doesn't have to stay with him. She doesn't have to accept being abused. She didn't cause him to be this way, she doesn't deserve it and it is not her fault. What her family did is similar to what he is doing only he is worse and it will not get better. She can't change him. Right now, she needs to know staying with him will continue to hurt. Leaving may be the best option or just take a break and go away for several days. It may help to clear her head. Please know, she will not leave until she is ready. There is a lot of self doubt, she thinks he is doing this out of love and he is not. This isn't love. He may look like a great guy..but he isn't. She thinks he is right and she is the crazy one. She isn't. He is the problem. Your outing tomorrow sounds really good_! Her gut is telling her this is not a good situation. If anything, perhaps try and let her know she is smart, beautiful, and brave. She deserves to be happy, thus guy isn't happy. He is abuse and he is going to hurt her more.
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Post by Katy on May 13, 2018 1:21:08 GMT
Hi Karen,
I'm really afraid for her after today. I know he's abusing her, there's no question anymore.
I picked her up and we had breakfast, though she mostly picked at it. I asked her what was wrong and she said she just feels like she can't do anything right with him. I asked her what she meant and she said, he's always "on" her, and it's "just everything", her hair, her clothes, her driving, her weight.She said he has grabbed her arm and told her she needed to put some meat on her bones. And I KNOW that HE knows that she's tried, it's been a problem her whole life, and it's something that has always been a sensitive subject with her. And when they argue, and she gets angry or upset, he tells her she's acting crazy, or she's hysterical and not making any sense. From what she said, it sounds like he's gets his way with her by tearing her apart emotionally until she give in. Then when we we're done with our hike she said she didn't want to go home. I offered her to let her stay at my place tonight but she said she couldn't. Apparently he called her this morning before I got there and got upset that she made plans without him. So she promised him she'd spend the rest of the weekend. She said if she didn't show up he'd "flip". I told her she doesn't deserve to be treated that way and she doesn't have to walk around on eggshells, worried about how he's going to react to everything. She just kept saying that he's "really trying". It doesn't sound like it to me. I asked her how much longer she's going to give him, how many more chances? She just shook her head and I could see she was trying not to cry. I told her if she ever decides she's had enough, I will do anything I can to help her. I told her about the One Love website and she said she would look at it. Also she said she wants to tell me about what happened at the party, she said it is something to do with him, but she'd rather write it down so she'll send me a text or email about it after the weekend. When I dropped her off this afternoon, he was already outside of her apartment waiting for her. I wanted to castrate him to be honest.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 13, 2018 14:45:10 GMT
HI Katy, wow..I am now sure that he did something to her and that party incident triggered a reaction in her. Or he threatened her or attempted. This guy is bad news. This is abuse, all that you are describing. What her weight concern says to her is "I am not good enough the way I am". Whether it is gaining weight or trying to lose weight, her inner child says "you are not good enough the way you are, you have to change in order to be loved". Very hurtful. She is good enough just how she is, she shouldn't have to change for anyone! Only if she wants to. It was so good of you to offer her to come and stay with you. I hope she takes you up on it if she needs to. I also hope her guy doesn't have a key to her place. It sounds like he doesn't. The fact that she is doing things to prevent him from "flipping" says he has been abusing her for a while, and it is "all the time". I am thinking a few things may help you to help her. AND..what I am going to say, I mean in the nicest way possible, so please don't take this the wrong way... Offering her to come and stay with you for a bit, great idea. Women who are thinking of leaving are SCARED to death to leave. The fear of being hit, stalked, threatened, not having a partner, it is DEVASTATING the process that goes on in one's head. Many women who have left have posted on this site and they have been beaten, hospitalized, stalked, threatened, and the self-doubt is terrible. Your friend sounds like she is trending towards those thoughts. Stockholm Syndrome is very real, it is when we get attached to our abusers, and it makes no sense. These jerks are detrimental to one's well-being, yet they stay. I guess what I am trying to say is, be supportive of her like you are doing, but try not to push her towards leaving to the point where she starts to feel guilty for not doing what you want vs doing what she wants vs what he wants. Many people who have not been abused..emotionally or mentally, CAN NOT understand why someone who is being abused doesn't leave. There is a lot of judgement, there is a "why do you stay, he is horrible, just leave". It isn't that easy. There is a very strong "pull or motivation or attachment" that victims have with their abusive partner. What can happen is "Secondary Abuse". And believe me, this is not an intentional thing. But those around the "victim" are trying to be supportive, but they end up being just like the ABUSER..by pressuring the "victim" to do something. Our supporters start telling us what to do, they think we are crazy for staying, they tell us to get over it (my sister who "rescued" me, did this very unknowingly). The book Why Does He Do That?" Has a section on how to be supportive of someone who is leaving. I had my sister read it. She didn't like it, but understood and supported me. Some supporters also become angry..and blame the victim saying "how did you let this happen?' or "How did you of all people end up in a relationship like that?" (people said both of these statements to me). I have been on both sides of this situation. My sister "rescued" me from my last boyfriend's house when he kicked me out and broke up with me to punish me. I left, but she had to come and pack me up and literally get me to leave. It was the best thing that could have happened in the long run, but as soon as I left, I had a very difficult time adjusting to not being in his house. I went back to see him literally a week later and was ready to move back in with him. My sister was furious with me for going to see him. She meant well, but I had to come to the realization on my own that being out of that relationship was the best thing! I have no regrets. Leaving is incredibly risky and scary. ABUSE gets worse when someone tries to leave, many women get beaten, or threatened or their families are threatened to be hurt by the abuser. I was with my husband for 26 years (married for 20, dated for 6). When I decided to leave, the abuse that was very subtle throughout my marriage became incredibly OBVIOUS. He said horrible things to me, threatened me, started to show violence (like your friends' partner) and my now ex threatened to hurt my kids in a way to hurt me. One thing that can be very helpful is to call a National Hotline for Domestic Violence.. in the US the number is 1-800-799-SAFE(7233). You or your friend can talk about a "safe" way to break up with him or leave so to speak. Having a plan helps to be prepared. There are so many things we don't think about when our emotions are high. They don't live together, but sadly Yeardly Love died by her boyfriend coming to her apartment one night and beat her up AFTER they had broken up. Statistically, ABUSE gets really bad when one tries to leave. So having a plan in place is good. She will need to stay safe. The Hotline has counselors 24/7 who can help you to help her put a plan in place, they will advise you or her on how to do this. He just isn't going to go away and say "Ok, I understand, let's part amicably and not hate each other, I wish you well". NOT. It doesn't happen that way. It can, but it is incredibly rare. I don't want to scare you or her, but this guy has the potential to be dangerous. He is already heading in that direction. She may not be ready to leave, it can take time to get to that point, but she is starting to see that this relationship is not healthy for her. She is hurting, this guy is supposed to love her and I would bet there are times where he can be "very loving". It is all a lie and very confusing for her. ABUSERS are Narcissists. They have a very distorted sense of Right and Wrong and what LOVE is. Their sense is all about THEM. Believe me, he totally believes that the way he is treating her is the way he is supposed to treat a partner. HE BELIEVES THAT HE IS JUSTIFIED and he can't or won't understand why she doesn't think the same way. Therefore, she shouldn't want to leave. He will not make it easy for her. They don't always just go away. Many women stay because when they are with their partner, at least they know what to expect. Being without someone, very hard. Katy, your friend is really blessed to have you! So glad you are there to help her!
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Post by Katy on May 15, 2018 3:56:08 GMT
Hi Karen,
I hear what you're saying. I've been trying not to tell her what to do but you are right, it's very hard for me to understand. I realize I can't know how she's feeling because I've never been in her shoes, so I'm not judging her, I'm really not. Just seeing what she's going through and then to see her continue to go back to him, it's a very helpless feeling. Sort of like watching someone running into a burning building and not being able to stop them.
I got her text about the party. It was actually a text sent via her email address. And she told me only to reply to her email and not to send any texts about this to her phone. So I guess that means he's checking her phone? Anyway, I found out he's hit her. It was about a month ago. She didn't think it counted as hitting though because it was during sex. They'd had an argument and she called him an asshole. She said she was really angry but he laughed it off. After they made up, they were having sex and he smacked her on the ass really hard and told her dead serious "don't ever talk to me like that again". She said she was furious and pushed him off of her and he said, "Wow, calm down, I was kidding." But it really upset her because she feels like he doesn't ever take her seriously. She said she even tried to discuss it with him later, to explain to him why she was upset but he wouldn't let her. He told her she was making a big deal over nothing and wouldn't even discuss it. He completely blew off her feelings. So what happened at the party, it just reminded her.
I haven't replied back because I don't know what to say, other than I'm so sorry that happened to her. I can't say what I'm thinking.
Like he really is a f**king asshole.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 16, 2018 2:30:15 GMT
Hey Katy, this guy is really bad news. The hitting he did is yes..physical violence. Abusers have a tactic where they will "lightly" hit to "test the waters". Then they do exactly what he did and make a joke out of it. He was completely serious and he meant exactly what he said and what he did. He wasn't kidding, or he believes that he can do things like that and make it into a joke. The fact that he wouldn't let her talk about it..also a big abuser tactic, telling her that she is overreacting. No, she is not overreacting, her gut is telling her this guy is not treating her right AND SHE IS RIGHT.
The abuse is going to get worse. The whole party incident is a trigger, she has been traumatized by what he did and it continues to get worse. She needs to break up with him. And soon. This is not a healthy relationship by any means. He is telling her what to do, he is either checking her phone, or he "playfully" grabs it from her and tries to look at it. Abusers do this. They find a way to get the password and then they can look at it if she leaves it laying around or whatever. She should change the password.
Believe me, I know you are not judging your friend. You have been a great support to her from what I can see. She trusts you at this point, she is sharing some pretty intimate details about what has happened to her.
You can say , "wow, so sorry that happened, it must have been horrible for you". Or "thanks (her name), thank you for trusting me to share that, I want you to know I am here, I will do anything I can to help you". You can also say, "Friend, I am worried about you, I have done a lot of research and reading about domestic violence and from what you have told me, I am just really worried about this relationship". Or "It is completely up to you what you do going forward, I will support you. I am just afraid that things are going to get worse, statistically they do and people like your guy don't change".
Perhaps just be honest with her. She keeps coming to you. That says something, she trusts you and needs answers and may be looking to you for them. I have told perfect strangers all those same words. I am scared for your friend. If you can, read the Lundy Bancroft book, I don't remember if you said you did or not. It really explains all that is happening. There is the "cycle of violence". He will get worse. That "spanking" he did is a test. It was to see what he can get away with.
She doesn't have to live like this. It is not her fault. And she can leave and begin to heal from the trauma he has inflicted on her. 9 months isn't that long of a relationship, but abuse can start from day one. It looks like she met prince charming in the beginning, she falls for him very quickly and before you know it, she is attached to him and then the abuser gets worse. The confusion, the manipulation, the guilt, the accusations. all of it gets worse.
I hope she can learn more and break up with him. If nothing else, she can take a break. Anything being away so she can think would be good.
Karen
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Post by Katy on May 26, 2018 15:23:18 GMT
Hi Karen,
Well, I have an update and it's not good. Our graduation was this week. We--meaning her and I along with 8 other close friends who graduated with us--had been planning for a while to all go out after the ceremony. Her parents were hosting a party the next day for other friends and family, but we wanted to to have one last party, just our little group, before we began our separate lives. Her boyfriend was pushing to come with her and she kept telling him no, as no one else was bringing their significant other. She said he was really annoyed about it and after the ceremony, he was sticking right next to her, not letting her out of his sight. We waited and waited for her to be done talking to him but I think she was afraid to actually walk away. It took 3 of us walking up to them and telling her, hey, we've got to go now, to get her into the car. Even after we did, she kept looking back to where he was. Her anxiety was pretty obvious. We all had a really great time, even she did I think. She did have a few drinks, but not near as many as she normally would. She's been telling me she's trying to cut back, not for him but for herself. When we brought her back to her apartment, he was actually not there, and I could see she was relieved. But I got a call the next day that he'd turned up in the middle of the night. She let him stay and she thought he was okay but in the morning, he started going off on her, about why she thought she needed her friends to "rescue" her from him. First of all, she didn't ask us to "rescue" her, we decided to do it on our own because it was clear he would have kept her all night if he could have. She said she'd tried to leave several times after the ceremony but he wouldn't let her. He kept distracting her with questions, telling her to wait a little while longer, asking her why she was in such a hurry to leave him. So she reminded him of this and he got extremely angry and grabbed her by the back of her neck hard. She told him he was hurting her but he ignored her. He told told her she had no right to blame any of this on him, he said he knew she just couldn't wait to get away from him. He said this was HER fault, and asked why she was MAKING him do it! She has been staying with me for the last several days. He's been filling her phone with texts and voicemails, apologizing and telling her how much he "loves" her. Right. She's turned her phone off but she said she's afraid if she stays home she'll end up letting him back in and she's not ready to do that. He already showed up at my door twice and I told him she wasn't here. He didn't believe me, in fact the second time he got very close to me, right in my face and asked me why I was lying to him, but after that I told him if he came back again I'd call the police--and I will, in a heartbeat--and he hasn't so far. I asked her how she felt about getting a restraining order, at least a temporary one, so she can have some peace while she decides what she wants to do. She said she'd think about it if he comes back again but she doesn't want to deal with the police or the courts right now. I suppose I have to respect that but I made sure she knew I would involve the police if he continued to show up at my house and she said she understood that. She hasn't wanted to talk about it much, she tells me she just needs time to think. But I told her she can stay as long as she needs to and if she wants to talk I'm here. So I guess now I just wait and hope she decides not to take him back.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on May 26, 2018 18:08:07 GMT
Hey Katy, he continues to abuse her and he will physically hurt her, I can feel it. He is already starting, grabbing her by the neck and acting as though he "owns" her. He is saying all the words that abusers say.."She is making him do this to her"..like somehow it is her fault, he is blaming her for his behavior. This is clearly abuse, my fear is he is going to hit her and really hurt her. His anger is escalating and he obviously could care less about what anyone thinks, including you. I am sure he doesn't care for you as you are not falling under his control.
I am really glad she is with you. He is not going to give up. Thinking about a restraining order is a really good thing, but it being "temporary" will help, but it will only put a "bandaid" on the wound that is slowing getting bigger. It is a start and is says a clear message. She needs to be ready to call the police any time he violates it and they usually violate it. She or whoever is around HAS to call..or it is useless. I hope she takes you up on your offer to help her go and get one. She has reason. BUT she will also need to be open and honest with the judge or it is her word against her boyfriends'. You may need to be prepared to talk as a witness and say what you have observed.
I know she is scared, confused, she probably feels guilty on some level, some shame as well that this is happening, and blaming herself as she possibly believes that SHE is causing this. She is not, this is not her fault, he is not right in what he is doing to her, and I really feel like he is going to hit her and really hurt her. AND he will blame her, he will say "You get me so mad, I have no other choice"..or something along those lines and she will believe it.
Respecting her choices at this point is really hard. I would be "tough love" and ask her if she is ready to be hospitalized? Is she ready to get pushed around and possibly even raped by someone who "loves" her? Because he will do this. It is escalating. It isn't a matter of "if" he hits her but "when". I am not an alarmist, but he is showing all the signs of being violent. Or he will do something to her car, or yours or your place or hers. Be vigilant, especially if he has any friends who think like he does and thinks it would be great to "rough" her up as she is messing with him and they support him. This has been known to happen, "Buddies" of abusers think nothing of getting back at a girl for hurting the guy.
She has good reason to be afraid she will let him back in. He will work his way into her "good graces" and get back into her life and it will start all over again. I am glad she turned off her phone and is admitting that she isn't ready to let him in. At this point, NEVER letting him in would still not be long enough. If he comes back? Follow through and make that 911 call.
Perhaps call a National DV hotline? I am thinking they can help her stay safe at this point as she is trying to leave him in a sense. They can help with practical advice about what to do next. This time is the most dangerous. A hotline can help about what to do to stay safe, perhaps things we haven't thought of.
So so so glad she has you Katy. And congratulations on your graduations! I am actually at my daughter's graduation from college this weekend! You young ladies have so much more to deal with than I did 30 years ago when I graduated. Good luck in the next chapter of your life! Very exciting times!
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Post by Katy on May 30, 2018 4:57:54 GMT
Hey Karen,
She went back to him. I begged her not to. I told her I was worried for her safety. I told her I was afraid he was going to seriously hurt her. But she said she missed him too much and had to give it one more try. She promised to keep in touch and that she'd always make time for us to get together and I know she meant it but to be honest, I'm scared to death for her, especially now that we're out of school and I won't see her every day and be able to see that she's okay. She's going to be working full time, and on top of that he's been pushing her to move in together. I just feel like if those two things happen, she's going to end up trapped with him and he's going to do everything he can to isolate her from her parents, from me, and from our other friends. Maybe it sounds crazy but it feels like she's been stolen, like she's being held hostage, only she doesn't want to be saved. I've heard about Stockholm Syndrome...I wonder if it's like that. She KNOWS he's dangerous for her, she's admitted that to me. She's also admitted that she knows he probably will not change. But she loves him and she can't let go. I am out of answers, except to just make sure she knows I'm here for her and hope she finds her way out before he seriously hurts her or worse.
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karen
Member
"Trust Your Journey"
Posts: 1,518
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Post by karen on Jun 1, 2018 2:26:41 GMT
Hi Katy, it is exactly Stockholm Syndrome. There is a strong attachment there and she has so many feelings wrapped up in him that she can't break loose yet. Sadly, it is going to get worse. The average time a battered woman goes back before finally leaving I think is around 7 times. She misses the "good times" that he has shown her, that causes her to keep staying even though she is not happy. It will cycle around. They will be so happy that he will push to move in with her so he can control her more. Once he is there for more than 30 days he won't have to leave if he doesn't want to and she can't kick him out. In most states there are "squatters rights". She is going to be stuck.
AND yes, it feels like she is held hostage, because she really is "stuck" with him. She is attached or even "addicted" to him. It is like an alcoholic who is "in love" with his drink of choice. He knows it is bad for him, yet he loves it and just can't give it up yet. He will have to get hurt worse before hitting "rock bottom" and then leaves. She literally is "addicted" to him.
The hard part is hoping that she finds her way to leave. And, I suspect she isn't going to do that as he will try everything he can to keep her close. He will isolate her and possibly wheedle his way into her finances (at least find a way to control them) and she will be screwed. He will convince her that all of her friends are a threat to them and should be cut out of her life. He will "act" like it is good to have friends and a social group, but then he will convince her to get rid of them.
What she knows and what she feels are two very different things.
At this point, be the friend you have been trying to be and hopefully she will come to you if in trouble.
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janine
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Posts: 1,185
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Post by janine on Jun 4, 2018 22:01:37 GMT
Katy, you are such a good friend. And there is nothing you can do right now other than "being an anchor". Be there, if she needs you. Reach out frequently just to check in on her. The rest is up to her. This is hard, and it must have been hard on you. Do take good care of yourself. It can be traumatizing to witness abuse, even indirect by having her tell you about it, so if you find yourself not feeling ok, talk to your parents and other loved ones, even a counselor if need be.
Your friend is in danger. Your assessment is 100% correct. And her boyfriend may dangerously harm or kill her. Those things are the bleak reality of DV and in most countries 3 women die per week on average by the hands of a current or former partner. It also takes most victims on average 5-7 times to leave the abuser, with the time right when they leave and right after they left being the most dangerous.
That said, a lot of women do survive and come out of the Stockholme Syndrone/traumatic bonding. It's not love. But an abused woman will THINK it is love simply because we do not grow up learning "this is how abuse feels like". There is a lot of adrenaline in her system right now and abuse can be physically addicting. Often times the sex with abusive people is very good too, simply because they use sex and other behaviors as a control mechanism. It often feels like an addiction and that's how it was like for me with my ex. I went back a few times too.
There are two things I can guarantee you from here on out.
1. The abuse has already continued and will get worse over time. She is in real danger. If not her life, then her health. I've known women who were beaten blind and deaf, or women who were strangled long enough to suffer brain damage. It's sad but real.
2. Humans are resilient and have survival mechanisms. (flight, fight, freeze, fawn) They overcome. She will have her body's survival system on her side, as well as good friends to reach out to when she is ready. This is not a question of if but when.
I am not surprised he urged her to move in, and would not be surprised if he tries to get her pregnant asap. Anything an abuser can do to make the woman dependent and isolated, that's what they do.
oxoxox
Lots of love and energy your way. It's not your fault. And having been a victim of DV myself I can promise you that there is nothing else you could have said or done to make her stay away from him. You did all you could.
Her survival and well-being is up to her now. When she is ready, the support net will be there.
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